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Not even sure which forum to post this ... or why I hardly play on BBO anymore

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 18:04

Sorry folks

But this hand didn't do it for me



There were some people who failed to make 12 tricks on the lead of 10 hearts and a couple of people somehow found a slam

But it doesn't do it for me and its clearly not randomly dealt

EDIT I did think it through carefully just in case there was a trick or a trap somewhere
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#2 User is online   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 19:00

Seems fairly 'normal' to me - why do you think it isn't 'random'.
What were you expecting that would make it a random deal?
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#3 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 20:59

Perhaps thepossum actually wants the exact opposite of random deals; hand-crafted deals that avoid flat boards. But I'm afraid that's not what you get with true randomness.
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#4 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 22:33

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-July-18, 19:00, said:

Seems fairly 'normal' to me - why do you think it isn't 'random'.
What were you expecting that would make it a random deal?


Just when the dummy went down and I looked at my own hand it just looked like a join the dots bridgemaster puzzle

I appreciate that it could in fact have been a totally random event in many different ways.

But it didn't feel random - I appreciate they don't happen very often (this kind of hand) but I am sure the frequency of "non random" hands has changed

What do people think of the choice of lead or a few people aiming for slam or somehow do something to miss out on 12 tricks, maybe they tried a finesse

It did half cross my mind to explore a club slam but the majority went the same way as me

I know I am a very ordinary player but when planning the hand after the lead I was expecting I may have to rely on a diamond trick or something

Put it this way though, hands like this make me log out or try some of the Bermuda Bowl archive hands
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#5 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 22:45

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-July-18, 20:59, said:

Perhaps thepossum actually wants the exact opposite of random deals; hand-crafted deals that avoid flat boards. But I'm afraid that's not what you get with true randomness.


We could possibly argue at length about what constitutes randomness but my brain is no longer up to those types of discussions, if it ever were at time in the past.

Regarding the heart lead though I think I would have gone for one of the other suits

Running a little sim (as I do) suggested that hearts are not the best lead, not that anything is really
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 23:02

Possum, could you spell out what the problem is with this deal? That nobody has a singleton? That happens sometimes, if it never happened you could reasonably say that the deals are not random.

That some bid slam and some failed to make 12 tricks on the lead of T is of course a bit pathetic, but more pathetic things happen in real live bridge.

By the way, it has been thoroughly tested that the deals have the distribution they should have according to probability theory. Many of us have a gut feeling that they aren't - for example, I have a strong feeling that my finesses work less than half the time. Those kind of gut feelings can usually be explained. Maybe the defenders are good at given me options to take loosing finesses, or maybe I have a tendency to take finesses towards myself while finesses towards dummy are more likely to work due to the robots' passive lead style. More likely, it's just some kind of recall bias.
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#7 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 23:03

View Posthelene_t, on 2021-July-18, 23:02, said:

Possum, could you spell out what the problem is with this deal? That nobody has a singleton? That happens sometimes, if it never happened you could reasonably say that the deals are not random.

That some bid slam and some failed to make 12 tricks on the lead of T is of course a bit pathetic, but more pathetic things happen in real live bridge.

By the way, it has been thoroughly tested that the deals have the distribution they should have according to probability theory. Many of us have a gut feeling that they aren't - for example, I have a strong feeling that my finesses work less than half the time. Those kind of gut feelings can usually be explained. Maybe the defenders are good at given me options to take loosing finesses, or maybe I have a tendency to take finesses towards myself while finesses towards dummy are more likely to work due to the robots' passive lead style. More likely, it's just some kind of recall bias.


Sorry I shouldn't have posted it. But hands like this make me log off.

I feel somehow the hands/dealer have changed and there is no feeling of real bridge hands, with any real sense that they aren't contrived, and that something interesting may happen

I'm not up to much interrogation since I am still facing a major anti-competitive existential business/career threat (from a much bigger supplier damaging me seriously and unreasonably) which is causing me massive stress. I just need some light relief occasionally

PS My baby sims confirmed that judgement on not even exploring slam wasnt that bad an option either

But who could ever prove that the hands weren't random (at least not from looking at just the hands) - whatever rando means. I mean, setting up a hand manually to achieve some score distribution could be regarded as random by many.

There are a few analogies?? to try to explain how I feel about these kinds of hands. One is join the dots drawing and the other is that terribly umpity pumity music. om pom pom type music

The short answer is that - no I probably cannot explain in any meaningful way how I have come to dislike the feel of the hands, the bidding system (and its contsraints), and the bots play. I hanker after real bridge with a real pack of cards and real people. That kind of feel
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#8 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-July-18, 23:47

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-July-18, 23:05, said:

The problem is nobody yet has any idea what 'like this' is referring to.


If you are all going to keep interrogating in this way I will just log on again. As I said I come to this site and forums for a bit of fun.

Too many overly-competitive and unfairly competitive people in my real life. And others who give me the nth degree all the time.

Maybe other people dont see and feel things the way I do

I see an overengineered and constrained everything. Perhaps everyone is so used to living within overegngineered constraints they have forgotten what freedom was like
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#9 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-July-19, 00:12

My post was after you had only posted your first sentence. When you edited the rest in later it answered my question so I deleted it.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-July-19, 04:21

View Postthepossum, on 2021-July-18, 23:03, said:

I hanker after real bridge with a real pack of cards and real people. That kind of feel

Yeah that I can certainly agree with.
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#11 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-July-19, 07:34

Hi The Possum. This is a really good entry from Wikipedia on why we all see patterns because we subconsciously look for them. In my case it leads to a morbid certainty that trumps will be 4-0 when I bid a grand slam. Pareidolia - Wikipedia
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#12 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-July-19, 10:42

yeah random hands, boring hands, average hands happen all the time in bridge. the only crazy thing (on this hand) is that pairs bid slam missing A + AK and some pairs did not make 12 tricks on the 10 lead. so the hand is random but the results are not. I guess, especially with players playing at less than advanced/expert level, even random boards generate strange results.
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