[MinorKid]

What will you open in each of these hands?
I.

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II.

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III.

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[Vampyr]

Isn’t the ability to show two-suiters the most important advantage of strong twos?

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2020-September-04, 20:25, said:

Isn’t the ability to show two-suiters the most important advantage of strong twos?

That advantage is reduced for 5-6 hands because you will have had to make three calls and reach a level higher before you have shown your shape.

[nullve]

System = ?

[Vampyr]

gordontd, on 2020-September-05, 00:59, said:

That advantage is reduced for 5-6 hands because you will have had to make three calls and reach a level higher before you have shown your shape.

Still better than trying to show two suits after a 2♣ opening.

[FelicityR]

nullve, on 2020-September-05, 03:23, said:

System = ?

It's easy in old-fashioned Acol as each hand is worth a strong 2♦ opening, denoting 8 playing tricks, however the OP's profile indicates that he either plays SAYC or 2/1 in a basic form with weak 2s. (Though on hand one, the ragged ♦ suit makes it slightly less so.)

The problem with all three hands is that you need partner with very little for slam to be made so you want to make sure that you keep the bidding open. I think most good players will agree though that using a strong 2♣ opening here is very ham-fisted and patently wrong. Furthermore, and especially after the usually inevitable 2♦ reply, either waiting or a negative, it gets awkward showing the two suits economically (as gordontd and Vampyr have both indicated). Hand 3 is perhaps slightly easier as the second suit is shorter and lower-ranking.

So, with reluctance I open in SAYC and 2/1 just 1♦ here as many have already voted on. If partner responds it's easy to show your shape thereafter and keep the bidding open with forcing continuations. If partner doesn't respond, you just hope that the 4th seat with so many cards outstanding in the other suits, will balance giving you another opportunity to bid.

[pescetom]

Vampyr, on 2020-September-05, 05:08, said:

Still better than trying to show two suits after a 2♣ opening.

It's very easy to show two suits after a 1♦ opening.

[Vampyr]

FelicityR, on 2020-September-05, 05:09, said:

So, with reluctance I open in SAYC and 2/1 just 1♦ here as many have already voted on. If partner responds it's easy to show your shape thereafter and keep the bidding open with forcing continuations. If partner doesn't respond, you just hope that the 4th seat with so many cards outstanding in the other suits, will balance giving you another opportunity to bid.

pescetom, on 2020-September-05, 14:17, said:

It's very easy to show two suits after a 1♦ opening.

Yes, but if Acol Twos are available and you are not opening them on this hand, what exactly are your requirements?

This was a condition of the poll, and while most of us don’t have it available, why wouldn’t we choose it here?

[nige1]

I. MinorKid 'What will you open in each of these hands?'
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Toss-up. 1♦ intending to reverse into ♥. 2♦ is also worth serious consideration.

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II.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
If playing strong twos, then 2♦ seems a no-brainer.
2♣ is vulnerable to pre-emption.

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III.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Again, 2♦ seems normal because 2♣ is vulnerable to pre-emption.

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[pescetom]

Vampyr, on 2020-September-05, 16:12, said:

Yes, but if Acol Twos are available and you are not opening them on this hand, what exactly are your requirements?

This was a condition of the poll, and while most of us don’t have it available, why wouldn’t we choose it here?

Fair enough. I don't know the nuances of an Acol two well so will not comment further.

[gordontd]

Vampyr, on 2020-September-05, 16:12, said:

Yes, but if Acol Twos are available and you are not opening them on this hand, what exactly are your requirements?

This was a condition of the poll, and while most of us don’t have it available, why wouldn’t we choose it here?

I think opening 2D on the final one is fine because you can rebid clubs (twice if necessary) and get your shape across.

But for the others, a likely auction would begin 2D-2NT-3H-3NT and now you are less well place than if you had started with 1D, always assuming you get over the hurdle of being left to play in 1D.

[Tramticket]

pescetom, on 2020-September-05, 14:17, said:

It's very easy to show two suits after a 1♦ opening.

Only if you get a second bid. These are all two-loser hands.

All three are excellent 2D openings if you have the bid available.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2020-September-05, 14:17, said:

It's very easy to show two suits after a 1♦ opening.

not after p-p-p but with a 2 suited hand particularly without the spade suit, that is unlikely. I mean how would you feel if you opened 1♦ on hand 1 and partner had xxxx, xxxx, Kx, xxx and you played there ?

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-September-06, 03:12, said:

not after p-p-p but with a 2 suited hand particularly without the spade suit, that is unlikely. I mean how would you feel if you opened 1♦ on hand 1 and partner had xxxx, xxxx, Kx, xxx and you played there ?

I would feel surprised that opponents with 17 HCP and a fit in spades remained silent. Such combinations are unlikely in any event, and bidding with the field (assuming we are in the 21st century and nobody plays strong 2 diamonds) takes out much of the remaining risk.

[nige1]

pescetom, on 2020-September-06, 05:49, said:

I would feel surprised that opponents with 17 HCP and a fit in spades remained silent. Such combinations are unlikely in any event, and bidding with the field (assuming we are in the 21st century and nobody plays strong 2 diamonds) takes out much of the remaining risk.

Stating the obvious: a possible danger of opening 1♦ on such hands, when you have a strong 2♦ bid in your repertoire, is that, no matter the rest of the auction (f any), partner will assume you have a weaker hand. Of course, just like those with inferior methods, you can keep making forcing bids. The problem is that you might get too high on a misfit. If you open 2♦, however, you can describe your shape and strength, in a relaxed, less aggressive, way. You consult partner, who will be better able to co-operate.

[pescetom]

nige1, on 2020-September-06, 06:15, said:

Stating the obvious: a possible danger of opening 1♦ on such hands, when you have a strong 2♦ bid in your repertoire, is that, no matter the rest of the auction (f any), partner will assume you have a weaker hand. Of course, just like those with inferior methods, you can keep making forcing bids. The problem is that you might get too high on a misfit. If you open 2♦, however, you can describe your shape and strength, in a relaxed, less aggressive, way. You consult partner, who will be better able to co-operate.

Sure, I was just responding to cyberyeti who asked me about getting passed out in 1♦, not thinking in a context of strong two bids (unfamiliar to me).

Just out of interest, how many people actually still play a strong 2♦? Strong 2 majors were still quite common here until a decade ago but diamonds were wiped out by Multicolor.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2020-September-06, 05:49, said:

I would feel surprised that opponents with 17 HCP and a fit in spades remained silent. Such combinations are unlikely in any event, and bidding with the field (assuming we are in the 21st century and nobody plays strong 2 diamonds) takes out much of the remaining risk.

Well presuming there aren't a decent number of strong clubbers or other methods maybe, and nobody opens 2♣.

but 4225/4234 10 over 7 under or similar is not that unlikely

[apollo1201]

I’m opening 1D on all, because in my system, a strong 2 is a real one-suiter. Ok, I might have a 4-cd minor next to a 6-cd M sometimes, but never 6-5. Either I open 1M, or I open a GF call, if I fear being left in 1M especially 1S.

But here with a minor, or even both minors, it is (almost) never happening.

Opening 2C here yells for having the 4S sign arrive on you left or your right straight away. Yes, 4NT might bow give you some relief, but.

[Vampyr]

pescetom, on 2020-September-06, 06:36, said:

Sure, I was just responding to cyberyeti who asked me about getting passed out in 1♦, not thinking in a context of strong two bids (unfamiliar to me).

Just out of interest, how many people actually still play a strong 2♦? Strong 2 majors were still quite common here until a decade ago but diamonds were wiped out by Multicolor.

Natural strong twos are decades out of date here, but Benji players will have 2♦ as a second strong artificial bid.

[Stephen Tu]

IMO if you don't want to take advantage of a natural strong two diamonds on these hands (I think I can comfortably bid 3h then 4h and give up captaincy and not have undersold my hand), you should cross it off your card and play something else.


I want to be able to reverse light on 5-6 (w/o creating GF) and FG (with 1d .. 2H ... 4H) on less than these so I think this is plenty to open 2.

If 2c artificial it's a TON different since now your first nat bid isn't until 3D.