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Following on from Byroner's articles on overcalls in the BIL Gazette, I'm interested in how people treat the following types of sequence:
(1♣) - 1♥ - (p) - 1♠
(1♥) - 1♠ - (p) - 2♣
(1♠) - 2♣ - (p) - 2♦
I often find as overcaller or advancer (overcaller's partner) I'm having to guess what hands the simple change of suit shows, so knowing (i) what to assume in the absence of other information, and (ii) what to try to persuade partners to play, would be useful.
Also, what do people think of more complex agreements (note to BILlies - don't try these without discussion!)
transfer advances?
(1♣) - 1♠ - (p) - 2♦ showing hearts
fit-jumps / fit-non-jumps?
(1♣) - 1♥ - (p) - 2♠ showing spades and a heart fit
2NT as Lebensohl / Good-bad style?
(1♠) - 2♥ - (p) - 2NT forcing 3♣ from overcaller
For now, this is all assuming responder (RHO) passes,
Robert
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Change of suit by advancer Forcing or not?
#2 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-June-05, 14:01
My preferred method (and the one played by most experts in north america) is new suit is non forcing at the 1 and 2 level. However 1S-2H-p-3C would be forcing as it is at the 3 level.
This means a cuebid does not categorically promise a fit. I also play jumpshifts as STRONG instead of fit in this auction because its really silly to be cuebidding with a hand like --- AKQxxx AJxx Qxx If pard overcalls 1S. He may jump to 4S or something stupid
A cuebid to me almost always does show TWO or more card support because of the strong jump shift aspect.
With one of my regular partners David Grainger we play new suits as forcing. I am just getting used to this, but it seems to work better than I thought it would. With him a cuebid would always show support, and a jump would be a fit jump.
This means a cuebid does not categorically promise a fit. I also play jumpshifts as STRONG instead of fit in this auction because its really silly to be cuebidding with a hand like --- AKQxxx AJxx Qxx If pard overcalls 1S. He may jump to 4S or something stupid
A cuebid to me almost always does show TWO or more card support because of the strong jump shift aspect. With one of my regular partners David Grainger we play new suits as forcing. I am just getting used to this, but it seems to work better than I thought it would. With him a cuebid would always show support, and a jump would be a fit jump.
#3
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Posted 2005-June-05, 14:34
I forget the exact numbers but in BWS2001:
25% of experts and 16% of readers played new suit one round force.
25% of experts and 16% of readers played new suit one round force.
#4
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Posted 2005-June-05, 15:08
Good question.
I basically "hedge my bets" here. Over a 1-level simple overall, a new suit is non-forcing at the 1 or 2 level and strongly tends to deny support for overcaller's suit.
At the two level, assuming good overcalling stadards, I use an SAYC-style that is a 1-round force; this helps navigate the waters if partner has a shapely minimum or a stronger maximum.
Therefore, cue bids strongly suggest support and a minimum of a limit raise, although it could also be a game forcing hand with its own suit.
And I like Justin's idea of a strong jump shift in this sequence although I hadn't really thought of its use. That way the cue bid is always support.
WinstonM
I basically "hedge my bets" here. Over a 1-level simple overall, a new suit is non-forcing at the 1 or 2 level and strongly tends to deny support for overcaller's suit.
At the two level, assuming good overcalling stadards, I use an SAYC-style that is a 1-round force; this helps navigate the waters if partner has a shapely minimum or a stronger maximum.
Therefore, cue bids strongly suggest support and a minimum of a limit raise, although it could also be a game forcing hand with its own suit.
And I like Justin's idea of a strong jump shift in this sequence although I hadn't really thought of its use. That way the cue bid is always support.
WinstonM
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-June-05, 15:34
well not always 3 card support...for instance
1C 1S p ?
Kx Kxxxx AKQx xx i would bid 2C not 3H but yes always 2+
1C 1S p ?
Kx Kxxxx AKQx xx i would bid 2C not 3H but yes always 2+
#6
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Posted 2005-June-05, 15:49
Quote
well not always 3 card support...for instance
Quote
1C 1S p ?
Quote
Kx Kxxxx AKQx xx i would bid 2C not 3H but yes always 2+
Kx is more than than I usually put down, so always still applies.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#7
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Posted 2005-June-05, 17:18
I wasn't sure what to answer, I play that answers at the same level are 100% forcing while at a higher one are 'forcing unless you overcalled with below minimum'.
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