[PhilG007]

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You are South,vulnerable against not. East,on your right deals and opens 3♥ which is
alerted to show a good preempt in spades. What action,if any,would you take?

[Cyberyeti]

If I don't have agreements about what 3/4♠ show, I probably double showing hearts and take it from there.

[Tramticket]

If opponents have transfer pre-empts on the card I definitely want to discuss defences with partner. What we play is less important than making sure that we have agreement.

On this hand I just bid 4♥. You want to tell partner straight away that you have long hearts. The problem with doubling to show hearts is that you will have a difficult problem if if the opponents bid 4♠ and it comes back to you. Double works with a five or six-card suit, but partner will never quite believe that you have a seven-card suit.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-11, 08:42, said:

If opponents have transfer pre-empts on the card I definitely want to discuss defences with partner. What we play is less important than making sure that we have agreement.

On this hand I just bid 4♥. You want to tell partner straight away that you have long hearts. The problem with doubling to show hearts is that you will have a difficult problem if if the opponents bid 4♠ and it comes back to you. Double works with a five or six-card suit, but partner will never quite believe that you have a seven-card suit.

I'd already decided I was bidding on if that happened.

[Phil]

Double (for me) is takeout of spades. I'm wayyyy too good for an immediate 4H.

[Winstonm]

I count this as a 5-loser hand - good but not great - so I bid 4H immediately.

[Cyberyeti]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-11, 15:34, said:

I count this as a 5-loser hand - good but not great - so I bid 4H immediately.

It depends, some versions of LTC count AJ10 as 1 not 2.

xxx, K, xxxx, KQ9xx is a cold grand, so it's not a bad hand.

[Winstonm]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-May-11, 15:56, said:

It depends, some versions of LTC count AJ10 as 1 not 2.

xxx, K, xxxx, KQ9xx is a cold grand, so it's not a bad hand.

Not bad - just not great opposite two or even 3 random cover cards. Qxxx, x, Qxxxx, Qxx

[rmnka447]

4 ♥

Yeah, the hand is a 5 loser hand. But unless you can find an entry to partner's hand, it could remain a 5 loser hand. 4 ♥ seems to be a reasonable shot at a positive if you find a card or two in partner's hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-11, 20:15, said:

Not bad - just not great opposite two or even 3 random cover cards. Qxxx, x, Qxxxx, Qxx

They're not random cover cards, and partner would not view ♠Q as a cover card in this auction unless thinking about NT. Give him a K and a Q in the minors and it becomes a lot better.

[msjennifer]

I do not like to presume “if he has that and that”..A 5loser hand it is and remains that way.A straight 4H bid is good enough to tell my partner to proceed if he can provide 4Cover cards outside spades.

[Cyberyeti]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-13, 00:09, said:

I do not like to presume “if he has that and that”..A 5loser hand it is and remains that way.A straight 4H bid is good enough to tell my partner to proceed if he can provide 4Cover cards outside spades.

If you use a particular version of LTC yes it is, if you use one of the other common versions it's a 3 loser hand (AJ10 is one loser in the other version, because leading up to it twice from xxx you usually only lose one trick).

Here, assessing it as 3 is clearly silly, as that requires more entries than partner is likely to have, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assess it as 4.

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-May-13, 03:42, said:

If you use a particular version of LTC yes it is, if you use one of the other common versions it's a 3 loser hand (AJ10 is one loser in the other version, because leading up to it twice from xxx you usually only lose one trick).

Here, assessing it as 3 is clearly silly, as that requires more entries than partner is likely to have, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assess it as 4.

You are correct.
Evaluating Axx and AJT both as 2 losers means one has to find either a new game or hand evaluation method IMO.

[Winstonm]

MrAce, on 2018-May-13, 12:04, said:

You are correct.
Evaluating Axx and AJT both as 2 losers means one has to find either a new game or hand evaluation method IMO.

I think it is a matter of being wiser than your system, i.e., not being slave to it but using it. Isn't it sufficient to utilize a blunt weapon (point count, LTC) for the big picture but use bridge knowledge AJx is slightly better than Axx while AJ10 is much better) for fine-tuning?

Point being that in the auction given the wrong 3 cover cover cards opposite does not yield a good play for slam: xxxx, Kx, Qxx, Qxxx, but at the same time AJ10 is better than AJx, which is better than Axx. Doesn't take a system to know that with AJ10, AJ10 you can bid more aggressively than with AJx or Axx.

[Cyberyeti]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-13, 13:14, said:

I think it is a matter of being wiser than your system, i.e., not being slave to it but using it. Isn't it sufficient to utilize a blunt weapon (point count, LTC) for the big picture but use bridge knowledge AJx is slightly better than Axx while AJ10 is much better) for fine-tuning?

Point being that in the auction given the wrong 3 cover cover cards opposite does not yield a good play for slam: xxxx, Kx, Qxx, Qxxx, but at the same time AJ10 is better than AJx, which is better than Axx. Doesn't take a system to know that with AJ10, AJ10 you can bid more aggressively than with AJx or Axx.

it's a subtle distinction, xxxx, Kx, Qx, Qxxxx slam is decent, xxxx, Kx, Kx, xxxxx is pretty good.

[gszes]

This hand has a HUGE amount of potential and I do not care much for the leap to 4h even though this hand satisfies the requirements for 4h. I would choose to lie with 3s (which I would normally take as michaels but also gives partner the extra chance to chirp 3n with no heart fit and a reasonable spade stop). If partner can make any kind of positive noise it will be tough to keep me out of slam and I would probably go searching for a grand.

[ggwhiz]

This hand is not all about hearts. I'm starting with 3♠ intending to bid 4♥ next.

If partner happens to bid 4m and pull 4♥ with a shapely thing, it has some stuff in it and we are playing 6 of their minor.

[helene_t]

Yeah 4♥ and then double 4♠. We may miss slam but at least we get partner to make a reasonably informed choice as to whether to defend 4♠ or not.

[mikeh]

How one approaches this hand depends largely on what one plans to do if one overcalls 4H and it goes 4S P P.

If one is happy with double in this spot, then one should bid 4H. If one is inclined to want to bid 5H, then one should start with a double of 3H (takeout of spades....I see very little utility in double shows hearts....it is low frequency and is in any even useless unless one has defined the strength shown).

I'm not comfortable which path I'd take so I am persuaded to double first by the upsides that can follow from double.

Partner may bid 3N, which I can pull to 4H and provide a reasonable description of my hand. Partner may bid 5m over 4S or even, tho I'd be surprised if this happened, over Pass, and now I like my hand for slam purposes.

It's close and I wouldn't criticize 4H then double and that might certainly work better on quite a few layouts.

[Winstonm]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-May-13, 13:42, said:

it's a subtle distinction, xxxx, Kx, Qx, Qxxxx slam is decent,

I don't think this is worth quibbling about, but I am curious if you forgot that the weak 3S bid is to your right?