BBO Discussion Forums: 12 count opposite opener - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

12 count opposite opener and drops it in 2C

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,606
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-December-06, 13:21

Free daylong tourney



Can GIB not bid something here.... IMPs scoring too!
Wayne Somerville
0

#2 User is offline   virgosrock 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 782
  • Joined: 2015-April-07

Posted 2017-December-07, 04:57

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-December-06, 13:21, said:

Free daylong tourney



Can GIB not bid something here.... IMPs scoring too!


seems to have done the right thing since ton of luck to make game. Not sure how it figured all this out.

vrock
0

#3 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,998
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2017-December-07, 10:27

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-December-07, 04:57, said:

seems to have done the right thing since ton of luck to make game. Not sure how it figured all this out.

vrock

No fit which means not as good as your hcp says.
Still worth an invite at any form of scoring



Sarcasm is a state of mind
0

#4 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2017-December-07, 13:30

Don't get me wrong, passing 2!C is a bad bid. But north is (arguably) a point short of forcing to game, lacks a spade stopper, and has no known fit. So I just consider passing 2C to be a bridge judgment on a hand where nothing is perfect, rather than a bug.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,917
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2017-December-07, 14:39

When it falls into that hole of no good bid, and too strong to pass, shouldn't there be a rule that kicks in to activate the false preference to 2d, rather than passing? I would consider it a bug.
1

#6 User is offline   virgosrock 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 782
  • Joined: 2015-April-07

Posted 2017-December-07, 18:26

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-December-07, 14:39, said:

When it falls into that hole of no good bid, and too strong to pass, shouldn't there be a rule that kicks in to activate the false preference to 2d, rather than passing? I would consider it a bug.


question is pref to 2c 4-3 fit or 2d potentially 4-2 fit.
i would bet ton of simulations will yield pass as best bid.

vrock
0

#7 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,315
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-December-07, 18:53

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-December-07, 18:26, said:

question is pref to 2c 4-3 fit or 2d potentially 4-2 fit.
i would bet ton of simulations will yield pass as best bid.

vrock

I'd disagree - it's highly unlikely opener has 4 diamonds (would need to hold a minimum 2344 or 3244 and not have rebid 1nt). And it's not just a choice between the two fits, since bidding 2 can get you to game whenever opener bids on, which will heavily skew the results towards bidding.
0

#8 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,305
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-December-08, 15:06

View Postsmerriman, on 2017-December-07, 18:53, said:

I'd disagree - it's highly unlikely opener has 4 diamonds (would need to hold a minimum 2344 or 3244 and not have rebid 1nt). And it's not just a choice between the two fits, since bidding 2 can get you to game whenever opener bids on, which will heavily skew the results towards bidding.


Yep, who rebids 2 with 4-4 in the minors. IMO, the most likely 4-2 diamond fit would be reached if opener started with a canape 1 opening with 4-5 in the minors.
0

#9 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2017-December-11, 23:10

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-December-07, 14:39, said:

When it falls into that hole of no good bid, and too strong to pass, shouldn't there be a rule that kicks in to activate the false preference to 2d, rather than passing? I would consider it a bug.

I don't see why "too strong to pass" is more important of a default factor than "not enough clubs to raise", "no stopper in the fourth suit for notrump", etc. It seems arbitrary to give more weight to not-passing instead of letting GIB use its judgment. In general, they try not to do rule out some particular action (like pass) automatically, because then on some hands where GIB wanted to pass it might find something even more ridiculous to do instead.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#10 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,917
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2017-December-12, 00:36

I don't mind GIB using judgment and passing on a hand where some humans might find a pass too, but this one? Is anyone really passing with 12 hcp?

If the trace said it considered 2d vs. passing and the other options, fine, but on my older PC version of GIB 2d isn't even a candidate bid, presumably because North is too strong. There shouldn't be a case where you fall into a hole and passing is the only way out when you can keep the auction alive. If it simmed and said pass > 2nt > 2d> 2s, OK I guess, though it seems a huge position to take when 2c is almost unlimited, and I'd question if it is accurately simulating how the auction would reasonably continue.

I prefer 2nt personally despite the sketchy spade stopper, as I feel South with short spades and a min will usually be able to find a 3h/3d/3c call to improve the contract.

Passing is gross, I don't think it's reasonable to just shrug this off as performing as designed.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users