[johnu]

 Pertinax, on 2016-November-03, 23:06, said:

Drop and drag is the last thing you want. It's hell on the wrist and the easiest way to carpal tunnel syndrome.

It may not be the first thing on my list, but it's definitely not the last thing. There are a number of ways to eliminate strain that can be used, and this would be an option that you wouldn't have to use.

[patroclo]

 diana_eva, on 2016-November-03, 14:53, said:

You will still be able to open files, you just won't be able to log in anymore.

There's a lin converter on web too, if you wish to use the files on BBO (look in My BBO > Hands and Results > Import lin file).

I speak of teaching file as "BIL lin" files, or old "hand of week" files.

[lycier]

Hi Barmar

Your announcement has been translated into chinese language, and published it on Chinese forum.
Most of chinese players will know this matter in a few days.

[arrow]

 barmar, on 2016-November-03, 13:24, said:

As announced here, we will be retiring the old, Windows version of BBO starting in February 2017. For users still using the old version, we understand this will be a shock to the system. We've created a guide that will hopefully help with the transition. We will also listen to serious requests about missing features. So if there's something that is really hindering your transition, here is your place to say something.

Please try to keep this to showstoppers. We're aware of the minor cosmetic differences, for instance.

As convenor for the ABTA (American Bridge Teachers Association) monthly discussion group on BBO, I am particularly upset about the lack of Chat Rooms in the new system. CUrrently we use the windows system to meet and chat about topics concerning bridge teachers. the windows version allows us to use the full screen for our chats and to save everything said automatically. This Chat is then edited and sent out to other teachers who are interested. We have been doing this for years, it is a very valuable tool for us to spread the word to teachers who are otherwise quite isolated, and to offer help and support to new bridge teachers. The web based program will not allow us to do any of this.

[steve2005]

FD convention cards.
As far as I know the only way to load FD convention cards is through the windows client.
I would like to see the ability to load FD convention cards through the browser version.

Some people make modifications to the set convention cards or use their own system.

[ping2827]

In Windows version there is a feature player could create his own detailed CC file and upload to BBO server. The web version does not support it. Will BBO enhance the web version to support it?

[StevenG]

I just had a look at the web version to see how I will be affected when the Windows client is no longer available. It appears to be impossible to replicate my experience while kibbing.

1) It is impossible to rotate the deal so that declarer is South. I find it difficult to follow the hand without this feature.
2) GIB seems to be single card only. I like to watch interesting deals with GIB on, so as to see (if I'm lucky!) whether my proposed endplay or squeeze might actually work. This isn't realistic if you have to click GIB on every card.

These are minor compared to ...
3) There is no option to bring up the table list when you're kibbing. I often kib to pass the time while I'm waiting for a worthwhile table. If I want a reasonable game, it is really the case that there is no other choice than to sit with the open tables screen in front of me? In the Windows client, I can see the open tables while kibbing. If I can't kib while looking for a game, there doesn't seem to be any point in coming in at all.

If you're going to kill the Windows client for some reason you haven't explained, can you at least please try to replicate the important functionality in the web version.

[jeffford76]

Is there any plan for giving access to Bridgemaster hands for people who have paid for them in the Windows version?

[scarletv]

 StevenG, on 2016-November-04, 10:28, said:

These are minor compared to ...
3) There is no option to bring up the table list when you're kibbing. I often kib to pass the time while I'm waiting for a worthwhile table. If I want a reasonable game, it is really the case that there is no other choice than to sit with the open tables screen in front of me? In the Windows client, I can see the open tables while kibbing. If I can't kib while looking for a game, there doesn't seem to be any point in coming in at all.

When you are kibbing or playing at a table you can get a list of tables by
1) BBO Now
2) List of tables
3) Select Main hall/tourneys/...
It is not very comfortable but it works

[StevenG]

 scarletv, on 2016-November-04, 11:15, said:

When you are kibbing or playing at a table you can get a list of tables by
1) BBO Now
2) List of tables
3) Select Main hall/tourneys/...
It is not very comfortable but it works

Thanks, that does work after a fashion. You have to move and resize it though and it still obscures other parts of the screen you might be interested in. It's a shame that you can't combine options - open+friends is my usual setting (ususally a small enough number in the Acol club).

[kthorpe]

Ugh. While I am happy to use the web interface to watch VuGraph, I ALWAYS play with the Windows version which I have much preferred.

I will make a real effort to use the web for the next while, before I am forced to, but am concerned re Adobe Flash - my partners in the past who play on the web version often crash several times a match!! Hope Chrome is happy with it since it is the only browser I have now.

Katie

[Aberlour10]

 johnu, on 2016-November-03, 16:00, said:

For me, the Windows client is 10X better experience than the web version, even though it hasn't been updated for 8 years. If I want to use some of the new features, I can open the web version. The playing experience is where 90% of development should go IMHO, as everything else is peripheral stuff, and I don't see that the playing environment has changed in years.

This hits the nail on the head for me, word by word.

I really hope, this radical cut will bring BBO more success than damage. But I doubt it for many reasons.

[onoway]

It effectively closes down the clubs as we will no longer be able to communicate with members. It's a bit difficult to see how this can be an asset to BBO, other than it will redirect players to the increasing use of GIBS, which I assume is the point, since they are a revenue source and the clubs are not.

However, since many of the club members in IAC at least are not at all happy using the webversion, I suspect many will simply leave and either stop playing bridge, or at least stop playing bridge on BBO, I know of some who already have when they changed computers and lost the download version.

It seems a little counterproductive to chase clients away from the site when the costs for keeping the download version would appear to be minimal, since there is and has been no maintenance. Some will move, reluctantly. Others will leave.

As a matter of interest, has the overall membership continued to grow or is it shrinking?

[gordontd]

What is the plan for Vu-Graph? I hope that also goes across to the web version so that we can avoid the interminable wait to log on while 10,000 users' names are loaded.

[JanM]

 gordontd, on 2016-November-05, 10:31, said:

What is the plan for Vu-Graph? I hope that also goes across to the web version so that we can avoid the interminable wait to log on while 10,000 users' names are loaded.

Vugraph will move to the web version sometime, but not immediately. Among the advantages of the move is that we will be able to use inexpensive, light, small, reliable chromebooks for Vugraph operators, which should make it even easier for people to organize broadcasts.

There are also improvements planned to the operator and organizer interface, which won't be apparent to you as a spectator, but will make the lives of those of us who organize Vugraph broadcasts easier, so I for one am looking forward to the move. Having said that, I'm also not holding my breath, since there are many things with higher priority, including I'm sure some of the things people have requested in this thread.

[Oceanss]

Such decision is, by all means, sad and bad.
I personally use web mostly, because of some of its new features, but as a designer myself, I still think that old version was zillion times better designed and friendlier for a user. Yet, that's the least of the troubles.. Having in mind steady decline of number of bridge players, I thought BBO was encouraging people to learn the game, along with all good world-known bridge players and recognized bridge teachers. For years it was home to BIL, IAC, ACOL, only to mention few clubs, that helped so many players, and in so many ways. Imho BBO is cruelly punishing all those that are still learning - no events would be organized, no lessons would be announced, and what teacher would want share their experience and waste their time to only 2-3 players that happened by chance to join the table?
Is it easy to ignore that a tournament restricted to certain group of players, alike in skill and experience, free from runners and fake experts, would be better enviroment for them?
We have been told that old version won't be updated, and had to accept that, fine... But I fail to see what advantages closing the clubs down can can bring to BBO. So what's the real REAL reason BBO now wants old version dead and buried??
.
.
Why none answered this ??

 1eyedjack, on 2016-November-03, 15:23, said:

Purely out of curiosity, I would be interested to know some stats.
Such as, how many users currently stick to the Windows client, in absolute terms and relative to others?
And such as, just how much does it cost BBO to allow such users to continue to use the Windows client? Certainly it costs nothing in maintenance and support, since it does not provide any. So I am expecting it is just down to the cost of bandwidth?

Edit: Another question please... Why this news weren't published on BBO News feed?? Not all read forums and all its topics.. Does someone hope get as little negative feedback as possible?

[gordontd]

 JanM, on 2016-November-05, 11:05, said:

Vugraph will move to the web version sometime, but not immediately. Among the advantages of the move is that we will be able to use inexpensive, light, small, reliable chromebooks for Vugraph operators, which should make it even easier for people to organize broadcasts.

There are also improvements planned to the operator and organizer interface, which won't be apparent to you as a spectator, but will make the lives of those of us who organize Vugraph broadcasts easier, so I for one am looking forward to the move. Having said that, I'm also not holding my breath, since there are many things with higher priority, including I'm sure some of the things people have requested in this thread.

Good news - I was asking as an organiser, not a spectator.

[Kaitlyn S]

 Oceanss, on 2016-November-05, 11:33, said:

Imho BBO is cruelly punishing all those that are still learning - no events would be organized, no lessons would be announced, and what teacher would want share their experience and waste their time to only 2-3 players that happened by chance to join the table?

This post probably doesn't belong here and probably should be the start of another thread elsewhere, but I'm curious what experiences casual teachers have teaching on BBO. I did try it with a table a while ago just to see what the experience was like. I offered a short lesson and announced it on the forum here, and a few times in the lobby chat and I got about a dozen students in the room. Of course, I am nobody who tried an experiment and if one of the name teachers offered a lesson, I imagine there would be hundreds if there was a way for students to find out that the famous teacher was giving a lesson here.

[barmar]

 Oceanss, on 2016-November-05, 11:33, said:

Such decision is, by all means, sad and bad.
I personally use web mostly, because of some of its new features, but as a designer myself, I still think that old version was zillion times better designed and friendlier for a user. Yet, that's the least of the troubles.. Having in mind steady decline of number of bridge players, I thought BBO was encouraging people to learn the game, along with all good world-known bridge players and recognized bridge teachers.

This doesn't affect new players at all. We stopped allowing new accounts to use the old version several years ago. So only people who have been members of BBO for more than 3 years are using the old version.

Quote

Edit: Another question please... Why this news weren't published on BBO News feed?? Not all read forums and all its topics.. Does someone hope get as little negative feedback as possible?

It will be in the news feed on Monday, we decided to let the forum know first. We'll also be sending a popup to users of the old version.

[MrAce]

In BW someone wrote

Quote

To all the people here who have said something along the lines of "BBO doesn't owe anything to anybody", I don't think you could get more wrong if you tried. BBO, like any other commercial entity since the advent of commerce, owes everything, including its very existence, to its customers, without whom there would be no BBO.

And I replied.

This is way too funny and I could not disagree more. But this is often the fallacy of people who did not grasp the difference between "rights" and "privilege or choice".

Assume I have an apartment complex. I have a swimming pool and gym buildings in it as well. I let you and other people, live in the apartments for free. But I charge you for using swimming pool and gym. Which you are NOT required to use in order to keep the apartments!(that is important)

Later, I decide to remodel the apartments you are living in for free. And I do not ask ANY of you to contribute in remodeling. Some of you love the new model and some of you hate it. And I can not afford to keep both the old ones and new ones. It is way too expensive for me business wise. The mentality that says "I OWE you guys my existence because you used my apartments for free, therefore I have to keep them both" or "I have to let people who uses my apartment for free decide how my apartment complex looks like" deserves a reply that I can not possibly express without Eugene removing my reply, so I won't.

Whether my decision was good or bad business wise, time will tell and I may actually end up losing money because of my decision. But I do not OWE anyone ANYTHING!