[Brandal]

The_Hog, on Apr 16 2005, 07:16 AM, said:

Brandal, if it becomes obvious in the auction that something stinks, then there is no law that says you can't use logic to determine what is going on - this is what Justin is saying.

Let me give you a totally obvious example. You are nv vs vul

1S (X) and you hold say a 20 count. Something smells, doesn't it? Psychic doubles are very unlikely, so there is a reasonable chance your pd has psyched. Say you pass and the next opp bids 3C, showing some values and it comes back to you. Would you truly tell me that if I passed here this is fielding a psyche? Sorry but this is a nonsense.

Ron

Yes Ron,sometimes,and as long as the opps have the
same "information" and also can use logic,I agree with you.

When one side is the winner based on pd of psycher using
logic before the opps do(or can) then I certainly would
feel bad,I just don't equal "get away with it" to fair play.

But that's me,I know I'm very much outnumbered when
it comes to the way you advanced players feel about the
full package(saying I might be better off playing spades etc).

When it comes to your example,sure,something fishy there.

[Brandal]

luke warm, on Apr 16 2005, 09:30 AM, said:

this isn't the first time there's been a seeming misunderstanding of psychs/fielding... as hotshot says, the opps are allowed to know your partnership agreements, and/or what your expectations are, based upon those agreements... they aren't allowed to benefit from your bridge logic

p (p) 1nt (x) p (p) 2d ... if i'm the partner of the nt bidder i'd be pretty damn sure he didn't have a 1nt bid... i'd expect everyone at the table to know the same thing

Couldn't NT opener have a strong 5 card diamondsuit
and maybe takeout the dbl because of one or two suits
barely stoppable in NT?

[luke warm]

it's possible, but the point is nobody should be surprised, partner or opps, if it turns out to be a weak hand with diamonds

[Brandal]

luke warm, on Apr 16 2005, 01:26 PM, said:

it's possible, but the point is nobody should be surprised, partner or opps, if it turns out to be a weak hand with diamonds

I would

[the hog]

Why would you be surprised, Brandal? Seriously a pd who bids this with a "strong 5 card D suit" is violating all rules of partnership bidding. He DOES NOT KNOW what pd has for his pass, which could be anything ranging form a hand just below invitational to a pile of garbage, and, (and this is an important consideration), depending on the system of responses you play, even a 4405 shape.

I would not play with a pd who made unilateral decisions to pull 1NTX just because he had a good 5 card D suit!

[Brandal]

The_Hog, on Apr 17 2005, 04:26 AM, said:

Why would you be surprised, Brandal? Seriously a pd who bids this with a "strong 5 card D suit" is violating all rules of partnership bidding. He DOES NOT KNOW what pd has for his pass, which could be anything ranging form a hand just below invitational to a pile of garbage, and, (and this is an important consideration), depending on the system of responses you play, even a 4405 shape.

I would not play with a pd who made unilateral decisions to pull 1NTX just because he had a good 5 card D suit!

I would be surprised if he had a weak hand in diamonds
is what I replied to.

I didn't say I would pull to 2D,didn't say anyone would
pull to 2D,just asked if it couldn't be possible.

You won't have to play with him,he was a fictive player.

[jdulmage]

#1 - That is what you get for psyching

#2 - Ruling was wrong anyways


#1 and #2 cancel each other out.

Morale of the story: Attempting to fool others makes a fool out of you.

[the hog]

"#1 - That is what you get for psyching"

This is a very foolish and ignorant comment. Obviously you are unaware that psyches are explicitly permitted in the rules.

[luke warm]

not only are they permitted, ron, but i've seen quite a few of the top players in the world resort to psychs... also some not so top players... if a bid doesn't work out it doesn't work out... that is certainly the case for far more 'normal' bids than it is psychs

attempting to fool others is sometimes the correct tactical ploy, whether a bid or a lead or a play

[Brandal]

The_Hog, on Apr 17 2005, 07:01 PM, said:

"#1 - That is what you get for psyching"

This is a very foolish and ignorant comment. Obviously you are unaware that psyches are explicitly permitted in the rules.

Not more foolish and ignorant than claiming only the opposite

I would say:

If the opps score big on your psyche,you deserved it
If your side score big on your psyche,you deserved it



Bet you never thought I'd say that heheh