[iandayre]

nekthen, on 2016-May-28, 02:02, said:

This hand is why Leaping Michaels was invented. Get the hand off your chest with 4♣, then pass for the rest of the auction with a clear conscience. If you are not playing this, I think you have to pass.

Leaping Michaels shows a GOOD HAND. This isn't close to qualifying.

[MrAce]

PASS

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

The main problem is the suit quality, move the Ace of club to spades,
and I am willing to start discussing 2S, I still would prefer a 6th
spade, but ok ... the hand with shortage needs to act.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gwnn]

MrAce, on 2016-May-29, 07:27, said:

PASS

I don't know if we can still be friends

[MrAce]

gwnn, on 2016-May-29, 08:45, said:

I don't know if we can still be friends

Heh, this is the 4th topic I had seen in 1 month, all of which are exactly 8 hcp and bicolor hands with ♠+minor when they open weak 2♥

http://bridgewinners...ease-imp-pairs/ Here it is considered a bad bid by many and there he had 6 card ♠ suit headed with Ace. I had 2 more in facebook closed group. One of them ending with -1400 other one ending up playing 4♠ when his pd holds a balanced 13 hcp and 3 card support vs a 2 level overcall. They end up going down 3 for -300, undoubled, while other table writes a plus score by simply letting them play 2♥.

And yes! We can still be friends, despite the fact that you are weak over weak bidder!!! Which is a BIG no no for me. I mean...joke aside, what is it that makes you want to bid badly weak over weak? Is it the suit quality of your spades? Is it the xx ♥? Funny as it is, you will not even know whether 3 ♣ is better place to run or not when doubled in 2♠. although playing 2♠ doubled is my last concern. It has too many other ways of going wrong, which includes mis defending by partner vs their final contract due to your overcall.

[rmnka447]

I'm passing this hand, but will get interested if partner finds a reopening bid.

[gwnn]

MrAce, on 2016-May-29, 09:06, said:

Heh, this is the 4th topic I had seen in 1 month, all of which are exactly 8 hcp and bicolor hands with ♠+minor when they open weak 2♥

http://bridgewinners...ease-imp-pairs/ Here it is considered a bad bid by many and there he had 6 card ♠ suit headed with Ace. I had 2 more in facebook closed group. One of them ending with -1400 other one ending up playing 4♠ when his pd holds a balanced 13 hcp and 3 card support vs a 2 level overcall. They end up going down 3 for -300, undoubled, while other table writes a plus score by simply letting them play 2♥.

And yes! We can still be friends, despite the fact that you are weak over weak bidder!!! Which is a BIG no no for me. I mean...joke aside, what is it that makes you want to bid badly weak over weak? Is it the suit quality of your spades? Is it the xx ♥? Funny as it is, you will not even know whether 3 ♣ is better place to run or not when doubled in 2♠. although playing 2♠ doubled is my last concern. It has too many other ways of going wrong, which includes mis defending by partner vs their final contract due to your overcall.

The fact that I have good potential in spades. When RHO has 6 hearts and I have 2 I tend to think they will have a fit and I should start looking for it ASAP. Partner could have some crap weak NT hand where we belong in game or at least game is a good sacrifice against their partscore. If they double me (depending a bit on table feel but usually) I'm going to run to clubs. If they double me again, ok, sometimes you're the windshield. And yes I know that the above sounds like I'll overcall every 2H with every 5215 but I promise I won't. I wouldn't bid 2S without the cJ. People can call this irrational but you can always find a tipping point like this, removing jacks one at a time.

[gwnn]

I wouldn't overcall 2S on that other hand (A98xxx Q9x - Q9xx) and I also wouldn't call it a spades+minor hand when clubs are so short/weak. I might if the hQ were transformed into something useful. Again, maybe weird. I just call'em like I see'em. Shrug.


edit:misvoided my hand sorry.

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2016-May-30, 00:52

[WesleyC]

MrAce, on 2016-May-29, 09:06, said:

Heh, this is the 4th topic I had seen in 1 month, all of which are exactly 8 hcp and bicolor hands with ♠+minor when they open weak 2♥

http://bridgewinners...ease-imp-pairs/ Here it is considered a bad bid by many and there he had 6 card ♠ suit headed with Ace. I had 2 more in facebook closed group. One of them ending with -1400 other one ending up playing 4♠ when his pd holds a balanced 13 hcp and 3 card support vs a 2 level overcall. They end up going down 3 for -300, undoubled, while other table writes a plus score by simply letting them play 2♥.

When choosing whether or not to take a light action over an opposition preempt, by far the most critical feature is the number of cards you hold in their suit.

The hand from the Bridgewinner's poll [A98642 Q97 --- Q974] after a 2!H opening is a perfect example. A heart hold of ♥Qxx should jump out at you like a a giant red flag! If partner hasn't got heart shortage you could easily lose the 3 tricks and go down even if your side holds more than enough values for game. If they DO have heart shortage (as on the actual hand) then they are entitled to place you with full values for your overcall (given that you're likely to have heart length).

If the hand had been [A98642 --- Q97 Q974] instead, then a 2S overcall would get plenty of support.

[nige1]

phoenix214, on 2016-May-27, 13:54, said:

Title - How close of on an overcall this is? IMP scoring.

---

I rank

• Pass = NAT. Your partner might expect more than this from a 2-level overcall of a weak-2..
• 2♠ = NAT. Playable by agreement but partner must handle such overcalls with kid-gloves.
• 4♣ = NAT. Leaping Michaels. Brave, even if you've agreed it is weak. Especially when partner prefers clubs.

[MrAce]

Bidding 2 ♠ with this, even if I could getaway with it, partner ruins my next 100 2♠ overcalls in the future.

[gwnn]

The way I see it: if partner has a fit for either of my suits (and we find it..), I'll be fine. If my p doesn't have a fit (as in Hyperon's example where pd has only stuff in the red suits), we will often get too high. But I bet on the case with a fit and I want to get in now. If we have this misfit and we get too high (2S or 3C could already be too high, or doubled), then that's just the bad case scenario. Partner may or may not adjust their GF range but I don't even think that's necessary. I'm basically betting on finding a fit and in that case if partner bids to game or slam, I'm not ashamed of this hand at all. Nobody needs to adjust anything (or by a spare jack here or there) and we'll be doing just fine. Again maybe we are just arguing about a single jack.

I like this hand but I recognize this is borderline.

I would pass on K9xxx xx x ATxxx

Would you overcall on KJxxx xx x AJTxx?
Or I hope you would at least on KJxxx xx x AQTxx

[mycroft]

I'm not concerned about being ashamed of my hand in game or slam; I'm concerned about when partner bids game and hits 5♥ (I'm also concerned about -450 into -200, but partner will save you, even if you pass, in that case). If you have the kind of fit where game is golden, so do they.

My biggest concern, whether or not I come up smelling like roses this time, is that partner is going to avoid the puddle of ... the next 10 times "just in case". Yes, I know if one call destroys partnership trust, then there's a bigger problem...but it happens.

I may miss some games over preempts (a lot, frankly - my agreement is sound overcalls), but I don't miss games because partner is scared we don't have enough when I do bid. As always, it's up to the partnership to agree what kind of range is in an overcall; and accept the inevitable bad boards that come from whatever agreement they make.

[kuhchung]

I think this is autopass. I want the SQ more.

But don't ask me how sick I'll feel when it goes 4H p p back to me...

[malafaya]

I pass, a matter of discipline as i see it.

[MrAce]

gwnn, on 2016-May-31, 14:27, said:

Would you overcall on KJxxx xx x AJTxx?
Or I hope you would at least on KJxxx xx x AQTxx

I would definitely bid 2♠ with 2nd hand and I would not have issues with bidders on first one.

[maartenxq]

[quote name='phoenix214' timestamp='1464378842' post='886743']

---

Title - How close of on an overcall this is? IMP scoring.
[/quote
No points bad suit so pass. If you get it back in 3 or 4 H you have a tough decision to make. Who is vulnerable?