[dickiegera]

---

We play 2/1 and 1NT is forcing .
Should West just bid 4♥
or
Should west bid 3♥ and East raise to 4♥
or

something else

Thank you

[nige1]

dickiegera writes "We play 2/1 and 1NT is forcing . Should West just bid 4♥ or
Should west bid 3♥ and East raise to 4♥ or
something else"

IMO something else. Perhaps, on a good day:
1♥ - 1N -
3N - AP
Assuming that 3N shows 6+ good ♥, suitable for notrumps.

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[mr1303]

3NT is vastly superior here. In 4H I would not be surprised to lose 2 spades, a ruff and a club.

[neilkaz]

1♥-1NT-3♥-3NT for me.

[Jinksy]

Good advert for the value of a stiff Q, though. 3N looks rather worse without it.

[ggwhiz]

neilkaz, on 2015-September-26, 22:09, said:

1♥-1NT-3♥-3NT for me.

Me too. Aces and Kings are meant for suit contracts and the East hand is meant for notrump.

[Jinksy]

Maybe times have changed, but 3♥ seems like an underbid to me, and 3N an overbid. Playing a standard system I'd rebid 3♥ with xxx AKxxxx AKx x, and now if E bids on, it lands us in a hopeless spot. Should he really be bidding any kind of game with such a quacky hand?

At IMPs at least I'd prob choose between 3♦ and 3N, albeit without much conviction for either. Maybe I'd psyche a 2♠ reverse.

[phil_20686]

Jinksy, on 2015-September-30, 09:58, said:

Maybe times have changed, but 3♥ seems like an underbid to me, and 3N an overbid. Playing a standard system I'd rebid 3♥ with xxx AKxxxx AKx x, and now if E bids on, it lands us in a hopeless spot. Should he really be bidding any kind of game with such a quacky hand?

At IMPs at least I'd prob choose between 3♦ and 3N, albeit without much conviction for either. Maybe I'd psyche a 2♠ reverse.

Sometimes you are allowed to be maximum for your bid. Stiff Q is not worth that much in a suit contract. And that's what you are aiming at really.Regarding the east hand, while its absolutely not the case that you should bid with every 8 count, you should definitely bid 3N here. The risk reward is just sweked so heavily in your favour. I can even imagine hands where you can make 3N but not 3H! All those slow value sjust scream that NT will play as well if not better than 3H.

[Jinksy]

phil_20686, on 2015-September-30, 16:06, said:

Sometimes you are allowed to be maximum for your bid. Stiff Q is not worth that much in a suit contract. And that's what you are aiming at really.Regarding the east hand, while its absolutely not the case that you should bid with every 8 count, you should definitely bid 3N here. The risk reward is just sweked so heavily in your favour. I can even imagine hands where you can make 3N but not 3H! All those slow value sjust scream that NT will play as well if not better than 3H.

Ok, 3N makes sense, but I still feel like 3♥ is timid. Do you agree you'd bid it on the hand I gave? If so, how is one supposed to know when to bid on if both hands would rebid 3♥ but one has a full trick over the other (before you even look at the Q♣)?

[ggwhiz]

Jinksy, on 2015-October-01, 04:58, said:

Do you agree you'd bid it on the hand I gave?

I wouldn't.

In the context of 1nt forcing it's an overbid but slight just as 3♥ on the given hand is an underbid but also slight.

On your hand I would bid an offbeat 2♦ which can be up to strong notrump values in my partnership and will get a courtesy move from responder with a good 8+. Can't jump to 3♦ as that's an unconditional game force.

I'm sure there are better ways to play but this is comfortable and (mostly) effective in my partnership.

[WesleyC]

I think this hand is too good for 3H.

I'd choose between 3NT (showing a 'balanced' hand with extra heart length, too strong for 3H), 3D (inventing a strong jump shift) or 2NT (if that was forcing) based on my methods.