[jjbrr]

Winstonm, on 2017-December-06, 14:00, said:

Washington Post



I'm a little rusty on my Latin. Would this be the quid, the pro, or the quo? This and the 19% Rosneft deal would make a tidy sum incentive for the corrupt-at-heart.

Tick-tock, tick-tock....

Mueller knew about this in June at the latest. The things we don't know must be pretty astonishing.

[Al_U_Card]

jjbrr, on 2017-December-06, 15:18, said:

Mueller knew about this in June at the latest. The things we don't know must be pretty astonishing.

Or, this is the best he can come up with even after such a long investigation?

[Winstonm]

LoL

[andrei]

I wasn't convinced until now, but this

jjbrr, on 2017-December-06, 08:27, said:

Rybolovlev's yacht was in Croatia last summer where Ivanka and Kushner were vacationing.

really made me reconsider.

[Zelandakh]

andrei, on 2017-December-06, 22:58, said:

I wasn't convinced until now, but this

really made me reconsider.

Since the original link did not give a reference for this, details can be found here.

[Zelandakh]

A possible further link to Michael Cohen (and the Steele dossier) is explored in this story. Edit: and some more background here.

[hrothgar]

Good article in The Atlantic https://www.theatlan...tm_source=atlfb

Quote

And to watch them embrace the label “deplorable” even as they elevate a man like Moore is to suspect Sanchez was right in seeing ressentiment as “a resignation to impotence on the cultural front where the real conflict lies. It effectively says: We cede to the bogeyman cultural elites the power of stereotypical definition, so becoming the stereotype more fully and grotesquely is our only means of empowerment.

[PassedOut]

hrothgar, on 2017-December-07, 07:14, said:

Good article in The Atlantic: Embracing Depravity

Quote

Now, traitors aren’t those who fail to ally with or actively break from the Republican Party; traitors are those unwilling to embrace depravity with them. It’s a test of loyalty. Republicans must join Bannon in championing Roy Moore and savaging Mitt Romney, knowing the latter is the better man, for the same reason gang initiates might be ordered to slug an old lady as she leaves church.

Such is the fate of all who join in enterprises with Trump or Bannon at the top: A moment comes when one must either become complicit in depravity or exhibit disloyalty. The Republican Party chose depravity—and now, so must all non-traitorous members.

Yes, the article supports this thesis and leads to this conclusion. And to think that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican! Sad.

[Winstonm]

hrothgar, on 2017-December-07, 07:14, said:

Good article in The Atlantic https://www.theatlan...tm_source=atlfb

I found the article helpful but troubling.

Quote

But national-level political communities really are communities now, in a fairly robust sense. Between dedicated cable and radio channels and the Internet, you really can live in them in a pretty literal and immersive way. But simultaneously—and maybe this sounds a bit paradoxical—political communities are therefore also more culturally autonomous.

This reminds me of the message attributed to an aide from George W. Bush era - that when we act we create our own reality.

At least for those who are immersed into the right-wing "community", the quote is accurate, and that is both frightening and sad.

[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on 2017-December-07, 08:52, said:

Yes, the article supports this thesis and leads to this conclusion. And to think that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican! Sad.

I took this quote from your post as to me it seems critical:

Quote

Such is the fate of all who join in enterprises with Trump or Bannon at the top: A moment comes when one must either become complicit in depravity or exhibit disloyalty

How Americans in great numbers can fall for this binary choice con and dehumanize and dismiss their neighbors as "enemies" is both puzzling and of great concern. Finding a path to civil discourse with these people, I think, is important and may be critical, and it must be the ideas being challenged, not the person. No one who feels themselves under attack is apt to change his mind. But just as in the devoutly religious, a problem that is almost impossible to overcome is that a person may immerse himself so deeply into faith-like political fervor that his ego and his faith become entwined to a degree that makes them practically inseparable.

[Winstonm]

I think it is important that we all understand the background and the psychology of many right-wing faithful.

Quote

PORTLAND, Ore. ― It was late morning in an artsy cafe, the smell of coffee and baked goods sweetening the air, and Ashley Bishop sat at a table, recalling a time when she was taught that most of secular American society was worthy of contempt.

Growing up in private evangelical Christian schools, Bishop saw the world in extremes, good and evil, heaven and hell. She was taught that to dance was to sin, that gay people were child molesters and that mental illness was a function of satanic influence. Teachers at her schools talked about slavery as black immigration, and instructors called environmentalists “hippie witches.”

Bishop’s family moved around a lot when she was a child, but her family always enrolled her in evangelical schools.

So when Bishop left school in 2003 and entered the real world at 17, she felt like she was an alien landing on Planet Earth for the first time.

Unless you have lived inside the bubble of church, family, school, it is difficult to imagine how these people cannot see what is obvious to us.

Liberal thinkers sometimes need to be reminded that if not for luck of birth, they, too, may have had the same challenges to overcome.

[andrei]

Zelandakh, on 2017-December-07, 00:38, said:

Since the original link did not give a reference for this, details can be found here.

Found the smoking gun in the article you are referring to:

Quote

I know Croatia very well. I’ve been to Croatia about 18-20 times over the past 21 years, including Dubrovnik and Hvar about 5 times. If I wanted to meet someone in secret without anybody knowing, (or just swim in the nude), I’d go to a hidden cove on one of the 1,000+ islands off the Croatian coast in a small boat, perhaps the southwest side of Hvar, which is pretty desolate.

From Dubrovnik, Ivanka and Kushner went to Hvar, which is an island about 3-4 hours by boat. Ivanka herself documented being in both Dubrovnik and Hvar on Instagram. What’s interesting is that she and American media sources waited until August 14th to post pics and stories, while Croatian media reported her in Dubrovnik on August 12th and arriving August 11th. Why wait and post both pics days later? Was she trying to hide something?

She goes to Hvar to meet somebody in secret.
Then she post pictures on Instagram showing she was in Hvar, because, you know, she was there to meet somebody in secret.
But wait, she posts the pictures 2 days later? Obviously there is something to hide, everybody who is clean post pictures on the spot.

[jjbrr]

yep, andrei, you found the smoking gun. good job, buddy. we're all proud of you.

[ldrews]

Trump keeps another campaign promise: https://amp.business...capital-2017-12

[jjbrr]

ldrews, on 2017-December-07, 12:15, said:

Trump keeps another campaign promise: https://amp.business...capital-2017-12

Quote

The decision to shake off warnings from senior officials such as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and align himself instead with prominent proponents of the move, including Vice President Pence and major donor Sheldon Adelson, underscored the president’s determination to break with past policy and keep a key campaign pledge — despite the potential risks to U.S. interests in the region and the goal of Middle East peace.

Quote

“It’s insane. We’re all resistant,” said one Trump confidant who recently spoke to the president about it. “He doesn’t realize what all he could trigger by doing this.”

Quote

Several advisers said he did not seem to have a full understanding of the issue and instead appeared to be focused on “seeming pro-Israel,” in the words of one, and “making a deal,” in the words of another.

[ldrews]

jjbrr, on 2017-December-07, 12:59, said:

We certainly don't know how this will turn out. Opinions seem to be divided. But Trump seems to think that because he made a campaign promise, he should keep it. How novel! How naive!

[PassedOut]

andrei, on 2017-December-07, 10:44, said:

Found the smoking gun in the article you are referring to:

She goes to Hvar to meet somebody in secret.
Then she post pictures on Instagram showing she was in Hvar, because, you know, she was there to meet somebody in secret.
But wait, she posts the pictures 2 days later? Obviously there is something to hide, everybody who is clean post pictures on the spot.

I find that folks with weak character tend to express their views indirectly. Your post here seems indirect. A word to the wise.

[jjbrr]

ldrews, on 2017-December-07, 13:18, said:

We certainly don't know how this will turn out. Opinions seem to be divided. But Trump seems to think that because he made a campaign promise, he should keep it. How novel! How naive!

He's getting paid by Adelson for this. I know you're not capable of any independent thought, so this idea will be lost on you, but as with most things you seem to support this is not in your best interest.

[ldrews]

jjbrr, on 2017-December-07, 14:08, said:

He's getting paid by Adelson for this. I know you're not capable of any independent thought, so this idea will be lost on you, but as with most things you seem to support this is not in your best interest.

Do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

[jjbrr]

ldrews, on 2017-December-07, 14:48, said:

Do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

I made several assertions. Which would you like evidence of?

As for getting paid: yes. It should not be difficult for you to find information about how much Adelson has donated to Trump at different times (that we know of).

As for independent thought: your ability to parrot talking points and not provide any substance is very well documented

As for it not being in your best interest: I suppose that depends on a number of different things. Perhaps you enjoy the world being a shitty place for other people to live; if that's true, I don't really care to know about it, though it would unlikely change much about how I feel about you. How do you feel about things like online poker, for example?