[rmnka447]

deleted

[rmnka447]

ldrews, on 2017-October-28, 21:06, said:

Several reasons.

The Federal Election Commission Filing made by the DNC and by the Clinton Campaign lists the expense as "Legal services". This is deliberately misleading since the intent was opposition research. This is a violation of Federal Election Laws and is subject to a fine and possible criminal prosecution.

The firm hired to do the research, GPS Fusion, hired Christopher Steele, a British ex-spy, to solicit information from Russian sources. The use of a foreign citizen is also a violation of Federal Election Law, subject to fines and criminal prosecution.

The solicitation of information from Russian sources to create a dossier to influence the 2016 election is exactly what Clinton and the Democrats have accused Trump of doing. So, in fact, it was the Clinton campaign and the DNC that colluded with Russia to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. This changes the main political narrative of the day. And if is illegal for the Trump campaign to do so, then it is illegal for the Clinton campaign to do so.

The Trump Dossier, an opposition research document with much of its content already discredited, was passed to the FBI and may have been used as part of the justification for obtaining the FISA warrant the allowed surveillance of the Trump campaign staff, and eventually resulted in the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the Russia/Trump connection. If this is indeed the case, then the entire investigation is tainted and would be thrown out of court as "fruit of the poisoned tree".

That is why this matters.

One very significant aspect of contracting with Fusion GPS keeps getting left out of the conversation. Last fall, when the British financial analyst testified before the Senate about the Magnitzsky Act, he also outlined a lot of details about the Russian oligarchy. He identified Fusion GPS as the firm that promulgated a disinformation and smear campaign against Magnitzsky to dissuade passage of the act. This campaign was financed by a Russian firm (bank?) that was closely tied to the Russian oligarchs and had former Russian intelligence personnel as its officers. He also made it clear that, in Russia, no one ever really becomes a former Russian intelligence officer.

This is troubling that Fusion GPS, a firm that has not only done business with the Russians, but with potentially Russian intelligence connected Russians, is involved in "opposition research" for the Democrats. If such a connection were found with the Republicans, I'm sure the progressives would be screaming bloody murder.

[Winstonm]

Here's what a con man sounds like when it looks like the jig is about up:

Quote

“Never seen such Republican ANGER & UNITY as I have concerning the lack of investigation on Clinton made Fake Dossier (now $12,000,000?)…the Uranium to Russia deal, the 33,000 plus deleted Emails, the Comey fix and so much more. Instead they look at phony Trump/Russia “collusion,” which doesn’t exist. The Dems are using this terrible (and bad for our country) Witch Hunt for evil politics, but the R’s …are now fighting back like never before. There is so much GUILT by Democrats/Clinton, and now the facts are pouring out. DO SOMETHING!”

[Winstonm]

rmnka447, on 2017-October-29, 12:13, said:

One very significant aspect of contracting with Fusion GPS keeps getting left out of the conversation. Last fall, when the British financial analyst testified before the Senate about the Magnitzsky Act, he also outlined a lot of details about the Russian oligarchy. He identified Fusion GPS as the firm that promulgated a disinformation and smear campaign against Magnitzsky to dissuade passage of the act. This campaign was financed by a Russian firm (bank?) that was closely tied to the Russian oligarchs and had former Russian intelligence personnel as its officers. He also made it clear that, in Russia, no one ever really becomes a former Russian intelligence officer.

This is troubling that Fusion GPS, a firm that has not only done business with the Russians, but with potentially Russian intelligence connected Russians, is involved in "opposition research" for the Democrats. If such a connection were found with the Republicans, I'm sure the progressives would be screaming bloody murder.

Fusion GPS was hired by the U.S. law firm that handled the defense for Prevazon. That is hardly "doing business with the Russians". Later, Fusion GPS hired Steele who then used his contacts in Russia to develop raw intelligence on Trump.

[rmnka447]

jjbrr, on 2017-October-20, 09:14, said:

We both know this sort of thing doesn't matter to people like rmnka. He's not actually able to think for himself. Sad!

I read all the denigrating comments you make about people who disagree with you and am really sad for you.

When I do so, I keep coming back to the parable about the Pharisee and the Tax Collector --

This parable was directed to those convinced of their own self righteousness and who despised everyone else. Two men a Pharisee and a Tax Collector
were praying in the temple. The Pharisee prayed "O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity -- greedy, dishonest, adulterous -- or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and pay tithes on my income." The Tax Collector would not raise his eyes to heaven, beat his breast and prayed "O God, have mercy on me a sinner." The latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, the one who humbles himself will be exalted.

I'm surprised that this happens as I'm not much of a bible reader or person who wears his religion on his sleeve. But it just seems so apropos.

Fortunately, I was taught to show respect to everyone one deals with and show them the dignity everyone deserves. I would urge you to do the same.

[barmar]

jjbrr, on 2017-October-29, 08:04, said:

Have the mods here happened to check if ldrews has a Russian IP?

I know this was meant facetiously, but I did check and he doesn't.

[rmnka447]

Winstonm, on 2017-October-29, 12:26, said:

Fusion GPS was hired by the U.S. law firm that handled the defense for Prevazon. That is hardly "doing business with the Russians". Later, Fusion GPS hired Steele who then used his contacts in Russia to develop raw intelligence on Trump.

Who paid for the content that Fusion promulgated? And where did the content come from?

[jjbrr]

barmar, on 2017-October-29, 13:11, said:

I know this was meant facetiously, but I did check and he doesn't.

Thanks

[jjbrr]

Did ldrews say he's from illinois or am I mistaken?

[Winstonm]

rmnka447, on 2017-October-29, 13:13, said:

Who paid for the content that Fusion promulgated? And where did the content come from?

I told you that above. Fusion was hired by the DNC/Clintons and Fusion hired Steele who spoke to his contacts in Russia. If you are trying to claim because he spoke to Russians it was a crime you are off base.

There is no crime in hiring a British citizen to work in the U.S. for the campaign. There is no crime for paying informers. Whatever information came out was from private individuals in Russia, not the Russian government.

Trying to equate negative information gathering by a campaign with receiving stolen documents from a foreign government or colluding to use the information stolen by a foreign government is beyond uniformed and deeply into purposefully ignorant.

We do not know as of yet if there is proof of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia; we do know that the Steele dossier and the DNC/Trump sponsoring of it is a red herring.

[ldrews]

Winstonm, on 2017-October-29, 12:26, said:

Fusion GPS was hired by the U.S. law firm that handled the defense for Prevazon. That is hardly "doing business with the Russians". Later, Fusion GPS hired Steele who then used his contacts in Russia to develop raw intelligence on Trump.

A Federal judge apparently has ordered GPS Fusion to turn over their bank records to Congress on Monday. If and when that happens we will have a clearer picture of who paid whom and when. I am looking forward to it.

[ldrews]

Winstonm, on 2017-October-29, 14:37, said:

we do know that the Steele dossier and the DNC/Trump sponsoring of it is a red herring.

We know no such thing.

[kenberg]

ldrews, on 2017-October-29, 15:55, said:

We know no such thing.

I would agree that at least I do not know this. Now a critical question. Critical for me.


I am prepared to let Mueller continue his investigations and then, unless he is suddenly unmasked as working for martian Intelligence, accept that he is far more likely than I am to have taken everything available into account. Surely all of this stuff about whatever involvement there was or wasn't is within the scope of his investigation. And so th equestion is: Are you prepared to let this takes its course under Mueller's investigation? I am, are you?

Another thread speaks of the JFK stuff. I mentioned there that after a bit of reading I decided that I could become an expert on the assassination or I could write my Ph. D. thesis but I probably could not do both. Same here. Same with Benghazi. Same with a lot of things. I try to be reasonably informed but mostly I want to get a good idea of whether I can or I cannot trust someone. I do not have absolute faith in anyone. I was the first kid in my age group in the neighborhood to figure out that there was not really a Santa Claus. No god(s) either, but that was later. So no absolute faith. But this means we have to rate people, and structures, on a continuum. Mueller could be a secret martian, but I think he is an honest and capable guy. So I will play some bridge and drink a little more wine while Mueller does his stuff. Are you prepared to do something along the same lines?

[ldrews]

kenberg, on 2017-October-29, 16:49, said:

I would agree that at least I do not know this. Now a critical question. Critical for me.


I am prepared to let Mueller continue his investigations and then, unless he is suddenly unmasked as working for martian Intelligence, accept that he is far more likely than I am to have taken everything available into account. Surely all of this stuff about whatever involvement there was or wasn't is within the scope of his investigation. And so th equestion is: Are you prepared to let this takes its course under Mueller's investigation? I am, are you?

Another thread speaks of the JFK stuff. I mentioned there that after a bit of reading I decided that I could become an expert on the assassination or I could write my Ph. D. thesis but I probably could not do both. Same here. Same with Benghazi. Same with a lot of things. I try to be reasonably informed but mostly I want to get a good idea of whether I can or I cannot trust someone. I do not have absolute faith in anyone. I was the first kid in my age group in the neighborhood to figure out that there was not really a Santa Claus. No god(s) either, but that was later. So no absolute faith. But this means we have to rate people, and structures, on a continuum. Mueller could be a secret martian, but I think he is an honest and capable guy. So I will play some bridge and drink a little more wine while Mueller does his stuff. Are you prepared to do something along the same lines?

Thank you for a thoughtful question.

Subject to a couple of caveats, yes I am fully ready to allow Mueller to continue his investigations and to accept his results. By reputation he is apparently a person of integrity.

The caveats have to do with Mueller's close association with James Comey. And recently more information has come to light regarding the Uranium One deal and the FBI's handling of their investigation into the bribery and corruption associated with the Russians who were ultimately receiving 20% of the US uranium supply. Mueller was the Director of the FBI at the time.

So, assuming that those issues get handled properly, I would have no problem with Mueller's continuation.

By the way, I also support the appointment of special counsels to investigate the Uranium One deal, Clinton email/James Comey/Loretta Lynch embroglio, the Clinton Foundation/Pay-ToPlaly issues, and the GPS Fusion/Trump Dossier. I would like to see everything put on the table in clear view and everyone who broke the law prosecuted. The Washington political environment has become an even worse cesspool than it usually is. It needs some drastic cleaning.

[Zelandakh]

rmnka447, on 2017-October-29, 13:09, said:

for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, the one who humbles himself will be exalted.

This does indeed seem rather appropriate for a thread about Donald Trump given the expectation of indictments within his inner circle later today.

[cherdano]

I guess the Trump botnet internal communications are running hot right now.

HILLARY ALERT! Mueller indictments are coming - we NEED TO TALK MORE ABOUT HILLARY! HILLARY EMAILS RUSSIA CRIMINAL.

[Zelandakh]

ldrews, on 2017-October-29, 17:11, said:

the Russians who were ultimately receiving 20% of the US uranium supply.

This is simply untrue and you know full well it is a lie. There is certainly a case that the junior officials that handled the matter within CFIUS should have put the matter under heavier scrutiny and referred it upwards but the way the committee is set up it is completely normal that this did not occur. Instead certain other fairly standard restrictions were put on the sale, primarily that the uranium could not be exported. What the sale does mean, and this is where the extra scrutiny should arguably have been applied, is that the Russian company involved could essentially turn off 20% of American uranium production. That is not as serious as uranium actually being received by Russia but does nonetheless have potential dangers attached.

At present there is no hint of any involvement by HC in the matter whatsoever and every reason to believe the witnesses that have said that she had no involvement. You may as well say that President Obama was responsible because he (alone) had the power to stop the sale, even though he was never informed. Again, this is standard practice at CFIUS. Your desire to equate inuendo with proven connections is notable. Let us see what Mueller comes out with and discuss the reality of it rather than obfuscate that with stories put about simply fir the purpose of causing confusion and redirecting attention.

[ldrews]

Zelandakh, on 2017-October-29, 18:05, said:

This is simply untrue and you know full well it is a lie. There is certainly a case that the junior officials that handled the matter within CFIUS should have put the matter under heavier scrutiny and referred it upwards but the way the committee is set up it is completely normal that this did not occur. Instead certain other fairly standard restrictions were put on the sale, primarily that the uranium could not be exported. What the sale does mean, and this is where the extra scrutiny should arguably have been applied, is that the Russian company involved could essentially turn off 20% of American uranium production. That is not as serious as uranium actually being received by Russia but does nonetheless have potential dangers attached.

At present there is no hint of any involvement by HC in the matter whatsoever and every reason to believe the witnesses that have said that she had no involvement. You may as well say that President Obama was responsible because he (alone) had the power to stop the sale, even though he was never informed. Again, this is standard practice at CFIUS. Your desire to equate inuendo with proven connections is notable. Let us see what Mueller comes out with and discuss the reality of it rather than obfuscate that with stories put about simply fir the purpose of causing confusion and redirecting attention.

Wasn't Hillary Clinton one of nine members of the panel that gave final approval to the deal?

[rmnka447]

Winstonm, on 2017-October-29, 14:37, said:

I told you that above. Fusion was hired by the DNC/Clintons and Fusion hired Steele who spoke to his contacts in Russia. If you are trying to claim because he spoke to Russians it was a crime you are off base.

There is no crime in hiring a British citizen to work in the U.S. for the campaign. There is no crime for paying informers. Whatever information came out was from private individuals in Russia, not the Russian government.

Trying to equate negative information gathering by a campaign with receiving stolen documents from a foreign government or colluding to use the information stolen by a foreign government is beyond uniformed and deeply into purposefully ignorant.

We do not know as of yet if there is proof of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia; we do know that the Steele dossier and the DNC/Trump sponsoring of it is a red herring.

Cmon, Winnie. Be real.

What stolen documents did the Trump campaign receive from the Russians? So far there's no proof of anything close to that happening.

The latest tale you have is Cambridge Analytica, a data analysis firm for the Republicans, talking to WikiLeaks Julian Assaunge and being told by Assaunge to go fly a kite. So there's no information transfer or collusion identified there either.

OTOH, somebody had to pay Steele/Fusion and the funds have been traced back to the DNC. I hardly think Steele/Fusion put the dossier together out of their own good will as a freebie. Or maybe, it was the legal firm that decided to seek the negative information on its own. Or were they acting as an agent/representative for the DNC and Hillary Clinton to find negative information on Trump? The purported millions paid for the dossier had to come from someplace.

[rmnka447]

jjbrr, on 2017-October-28, 21:30, said:

You know Hillary didn't win, right?

Most middle of the road and conservative are certainly aware that "Hillary didn't win" and President Trump did.

The problem is that progressives/liberals can't accept that reality and have spent a year trying to deny the result.