[gordontd]

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3S is weak.
Is 3NT to play or something else?

[mr1303]

To play.

Something like Kxx and an outside useful card. Partner has a good hand for his second X

[aguahombre]

Wouldn't try this with the rest of the World, but it is pick-a-minor for us.

[Zelandakh]

You sometimes see top class pairs have misunderstandings in this kind of auction so as a generic question I am not sure you can get a good answer here. Since this is surely a UI case you might give us a clue as to the auality of the players involved. At a low level 3NT is always natural; for experts they should have some general agreements in similar auctions that would have a bearing on the case. Bidding this as anything but natural with a pick up would be silly.

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2014-December-30, 03:48, said:

Since this is surely a UI case you might give us a clue as to the auality of the players involved.

No, it's not a UI case - I'm taking advantage of one of my rare opportunities to play bridge in a four-day congress!

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2014-December-30, 03:48, said:

At a low level 3NT is always natural; for experts they should have some general agreements in similar auctions that would have a bearing on the case. Bidding this as anything but natural with a pick up would be silly.

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and

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would show two places to play.

[Cthulhu D]

More importantly, if you are getting +400 in 3NT, doesn't 3Sx rate to cough up +500 at this vul?

[gordontd]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-December-30, 04:48, said:

More importantly, if you are getting +400 in 3NT, doesn't 3Sx rate to cough up +500 at this vul?

Not necessarily - they have a nine or ten card fit and could easily make eight or nine trcks when we can make 3NT.

[fromageGB]

Yes you might make 3NT when they have 9 or 8 tricks in spades, but surely you cannot have any cause for thinking that they have no entry which's absence will allow you to make your contract. If you have ♠AK or AQ then they will likely have more than one entry.

Minors, or possibly one minor plus heart tolerance. Your failure to bid 3NT over 3♠ makes it clear-cut.
(1♠) X (3♠) 3NT I would take as natural without any agreement.

[jallerton]

Without a specific agreement to the contrary 3NT is always natural, unless natural makes no sense whatsoever.

Here, whilst there is a case for playing 3NT as scrambling (I can recall discussions on the subject), it's plausible to have a natural 3NT bid: although balanced hands with a double spade stop would tend to pass the double, you might want to try 3NT natural with (say) a single stop and a 6-card minor headed by the A or K.

[whereagles]

undiscussed bids are natural.

i rest my case

[aguahombre]

whereagles, on 2014-December-30, 21:01, said:

undiscussed bids are natural.

i rest my case

And now, we are discussing this bid.

[gnasher]

jallerton, on 2014-December-30, 18:09, said:

Without a specific agreement to the contrary 3NT is always natural, unless natural makes no sense whatsoever.

Here, whilst there is a case for playing 3NT as scrambling (I can recall discussions on the subject), it's plausible to have a natural 3NT bid: although balanced hands with a double spade stop would tend to pass the double, you might want to try 3NT natural with (say) a single stop and a 6-card minor headed by the A or K.

All of this is true, but I can't remember ever actually having this hand, bidding 3NT, and making it. Hence I think it's better to agree it as two places to play.

[gordontd]

jallerton, on 2014-December-30, 18:09, said:

Without a specific agreement to the contrary 3NT is always natural, unless natural makes no sense whatsoever.

That was my view but my partner thought otherwise. It seems we both have support here.

jallerton, on 2014-December-30, 18:09, said:

Here, whilst there is a case for playing 3NT as scrambling (I can recall discussions on the subject), it's plausible to have a natural 3NT bid: although balanced hands with a double spade stop would tend to pass the double, you might want to try 3NT natural with (say) a single stop and a 6-card minor headed by the A or K.

I'm not sure I'd want to pass the double with with a short double stop either - AQ tight and another card for example.

[ggwhiz]

Kx of spades and a 6-card minor, ie KJxxxx that you hope to run