[kgr]

teams (IMPs)

---

LHO starts with a small diamond for RHO's Ace.
What is the best play?

[navahak]

4-1 heart could be problem ... Throw spade to first trick? That could keep losers at 1♦+1♠+1♥ and keep trump control.

Then spade ace and diamond defense leads to ruff. Heart to ace and small heart from dummy. Now you goe down if heart Q wins and give a club ruff but in other cases you make it. Diamond can be ruffed to dummy with honor and you have club entry back to hand to pull the remaining two trumps.

Did I see completely wrong problem here? I just misplayed a simple ending in the last board of BBF indy.

[kgr]

navahak, on 2014-November-30, 15:29, said:

4-1 heart could be problem ... Throw spade to first trick? That could keep losers at 1♦+1♠+1♥ and keep trump control.

Then spade ace and diamond defense leads to ruff. Heart to ace and small heart from dummy. Now you goe down if heart Q wins and give a club ruff but in other cases you make it. Diamond can be ruffed to dummy with honor and you have club entry back to hand to pull the remaining two trumps.

Did I see completely wrong problem here? I just misplayed a simple ending in the last board of BBF indy.

This is the situation then:

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Opp has taken the second ♥ with ♥Q and returns a ♣.
You are down if player with 4c♥ has a singleton ♣? (or if ♥Q winner can give his partner a ♣-ruff).
...but maybe it is the best play?

[nige1]

kgr, on 2014-November-30, 14:05, said:

teams (IMPs)
LHO starts with a small diamond for RHO's Ace.
What is the best play?

---

IMO You should try to cater for a 4-1 trump break:
Ruff the ♦ lead. Cash ♥A, (hoping that both follow). Lead a ♠ to ♠Q.

• If ♠Q wins, then claim (cashing ♥K and running ♣s, to lose at most 2 ♥s and a ♠).
• If a defender wins ♠A to continue ♦ (best), then ruff and cash ♠s and ♣s until a defender ruffs. Ruff the return and claim, cashing ♥K and playing the black suits.

This line is quite good but sometimes, defenders may be able to negotiate 3 ruffs.

[kgr]

nige1, on 2014-November-30, 18:25, said:

IMO You should try to cater for a 4-1 trump break:
Ruff the ♦ lead, cash ♥A, lead a ♠ to ♠Q.
If ♠Q wins, cash ♥A and run ♣s, losing at most 2 ♥s and a ♠.
If a defender wins ♠A to continue ♦ (best), then ruff and cash ♠K and ♣s until a defender ruffs.
Ruff the return, cash another top ♥ and claim.

You come to the below and start playing Clubs:

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...looks good.
Another suggested line to me was to play 1 Heart and then start playing Clubs.
But that can lead to problems if a defender first discards to a singleton S before the second club ruff.

[WesleyC]

My first instinct was to try discarding on the first diamond, but because you can't afford to discard on both diamonds, it just doesn't work - A defender holding ♥Qxxx will always retain trump control. Nige1's line looks like the best chance especially if start spades with the J♠ from dummy. RHO is a favourite to hold the A♠, and starting with the Jack makes it almost impossible for him to fly up with it from Axxx or Axx.

[nige1]

rubbish deleted

[WesleyC]

nige1, on 2014-December-01, 07:59, said:

Starting with a small ♠ is probably better against best defence (when a defender flies with ♠A and forces you in ♦). After ruffing and cashing your other top ♠, you will sometimes you be able to enter dummy with a ♣ to play 2 more ♠s. This makes it harder for opponents to negotiate a black-suit cross-ruff, when the remaining trumps are 2-1.

I can't come up with a hand where the spade pips matter but i'd be interested to see one?

[nige1]

WesleyC, on 2014-December-01, 11:53, said:

I can't come up with a hand where the spade pips matter but i'd be interested to see one?

Sorry. You're right, WesleyC. I've deleted the offending post.

[rhm]

The following line seems foolproof against anything but 5-0 heart splits.

T1: ♦ ruff
T2: ♥A
T3: ♠ to the king

If this wins, ♥K followed by clubs from the top will always deliver at least 10 tricks.
Therefor assume that opponents win and continue with a diamond.

T4: ♦ ruff

Again play clubs from the top without drawing another trump.
Worst what can happen is that someone eventually ruffs a club. What can this opponent do now?
If he forces you with yet a third diamond, play a heart to the king and a spade to hand and continue clubs.
The defense gets 2 trump tricks and the spade ace.
If after the club ruff the opponent can give his partner a spade ruff, but then again this will be the last trick for the defense.

This line can not lose unless one defender has all three remaining clubs and the other at most one spade and two trumps, in which case the defense could cross ruff.
But this is impossible on the bidding.

Rainer Herrmann

[Phil]

How about this.

1. Ruff the diamond.
2. Drive out the sA (interesting if they duck but say they grab it)
3. Ruff diamond
4. Play one high trump (leaving three out).
5. Start running the clubs.

If trump are 4-1 I believe that you are cold at this point. Dummy's low heart protects against a further tap. If trump are 3-2 things can get a little weird. I won't go into the iterations but I think at the table you'd pick up on this and just cash the other high trump lol.

Edit I see I cross posted with RHM.

[Fluffy]

Phil, on 2014-December-01, 14:48, said:

How about this.

1. Ruff the diamond.
2. Drive out the sA (interesting if they duck but say they grab it)
3. Ruff diamond
4. Play one high trump (leaving three out).
5. Start running the clubs.

If trump are 4-1 I believe that you are cold at this point. Dummy's low heart protects against a further tap. If trump are 3-2 things can get a little weird. I won't go into the iterations but I think at the table you'd pick up on this and just cash the other high trump lol.

Edit I see I cross posted with RHM.

Yeah you both were esentially just stating the same line nige1 suggested yesterday.

[rhm]

nige1, on 2014-November-30, 18:25, said:

IMO You should try to cater for a 4-1 trump break:
Ruff the ♦ lead. Cash ♥A, (hoping that both follow). Lead a ♠ to ♠Q.

• If ♠Q wins, then claim (cashing ♥K and running ♣s, to lose at most 2 ♥s and a ♠).
• If a defender wins ♠A to continue ♦ (best), then ruff and cash ♠s and ♣s until a defender ruffs. Ruff the return and claim, cashing ♥K and playing the black suits.

This line is quite good but sometimes, defenders may be able to negotiate 3 ruffs.

Show me the layout where opponents can negotiate 3 ruffs.
On the bidding this is virtually impossible.
Remember that opponents have 11 diamonds between them.
Spades will not be 6-1 and at the same time clubs 3-0.
East would have to be 1♠=2♥=7♦=3♣ and West 6♠=3♥=4♦=0♣
Among others opponents would be cold for 5 diamonds.
Opponents can negotiate just one club and one spade ruff.

Rainer Herrmann

[nige1]

rhm, on 2014-December-01, 14:39, said:

T4: ♦ ruff Again play clubs from the top without drawing another trump. Worst what can happen is that someone eventually ruffs a club. What can this opponent do now? If he forces you with yet a third diamond, play a heart to the king and a spade to hand and continue clubs. The defense gets 2 trump tricks and the spade ace. If after the club ruff the opponent can give his partner a spade ruff, but then again this will be the last trick for the defense. This line can not lose unless one defender has all three remaining clubs and the other at most one spade and two trumps, in which case the defense could cross ruff. But this is impossible on the bidding.

rhm, on 2014-December-01, 15:11, said:

Show me the layout where opponents can negotiate 3 ruffs. On the bidding this is virtually impossible. Remember that opponents have 11 diamonds between them. Spades will not be 6-1 and at the same time clubs 3-0. East would have to be 1♠=2♥=7♦=3♣ and West 6♠=3♥=4♦=0♣ Among others opponents would be cold for 5 diamonds. Opponents can negotiate just one club and one spade ruff. Rainer Herrmann

KGR's problem is challenging ...

When defenders are exhausted of ♣, you should attempt to cash a ♠ or you may fail against distributions like that on the left.

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After 3 rounds of ♣, you reach this 6-card ending.
Now.if you lead a 4th club, then defenders can make their trumps separately:
RHO ruffs, LHO ruffs a ♠, and a ♦ promotes RHO's ♥Q.

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[rhm]

nige1, on 2014-December-02, 04:58, said:

KGR's problem is challenging ...

When defenders are exhausted of ♣, you should attempt to cash a ♠ or you may fail against distributions like that on the left.

---

After 3 rounds of ♣, you reach this 6-card ending.
Now.if you lead a 4th club, then defenders can make their trumps separately:
RHO ruffs, LHO ruffs a ♠, and a ♦ promotes RHO's ♥Q.

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Nice try, but completely unrealistic and this was my point.
Who overcalls 1♦ with 5-5 in spades and diamonds holding a void in clubs and never mention the spades?
Who will bid 3♦ with six card support non vulnerable?
Who will be prepared to defend 4♥ with either the East or West hand?
Which defender is clever enough to refuse 3 times to ruff in and will discard his diamonds instead?
I have seen similar but realistic layouts reported in the Bridge World and butchered by the likes of Rosenberg Zia.

If this were a double dummy exercise looking for a perfect solution fair enough.
Unless otherwise süpecified I consider this as a practical problem dealt at the table.

Rainer Herrmann

[nige1]

rhm, on 2014-December-02, 09:21, said:

Nice try, but completely unrealistic and this was my point.
Who overcalls 1♦ with 5-5 in spades and diamonds holding a void in clubs and never mention the spades?
Who will bid 3♦ with six card support non vulnerable?
Who will be prepared to defend 4♥ with either the East or West hand?
Which defender is clever enough to refuse 3 times to ruff in and will discard his diamonds instead?
I have seen similar but realistic layouts reported in the Bridge World and butchered by the likes of Rosenberg Zia.

If this were a double dummy exercise looking for a perfect solution fair enough.
Unless otherwise süpecified I consider this as a practical problem dealt at the table.

Rainer Herrmann

Now that Rainer's gone