[whereagles]

IMPs.

---

bid?

[Jinksy]

How many Cs has N shown?

[whereagles]

in this sequence, 4+

[Fluffy]

I pass, partially because they might be playing into a missunderstanding.

[mike777]

double after 1c.

pass now

[ggwhiz]

I'm not laying this dummy down to a doubleton diamond lead.

[ArtK78]

The thought of bidding on this hand on this bidding at this form of scoring makes me ill.

[gszes]

2s

We will never know if p has 5 hearts or not for a 2h bid
(if we were to choose x) but the hand appears to play better
from our side of the table even if it is in a 43 vs 53 fit.

The opening leader on lead makes our hand look better and who
knows maybe lho will get frisky with Ax dia and try for a ruff.
Club ruffs will come from the 3+ (hopefully) card suit. Is this a
battle worth waging????

The risk vs reward chart seems skewed in favor of risk since the
reward seems limited to a part score but letting the opps silently
play 2c feels like a losing proposition and it is highly unlikely
we have to worry much about 2s getting x after this bidding so the
risk part is strongly diminished.

[diana_eva]

I'd pass. Wouldn't pard have made some noise over 1d if he had a suit or some shape?

[gnasher]

Doesn't everyone double 1♣ on this type of hand nowadays?

[PhantomSac]

 gnasher, on 2014-November-22, 14:13, said:

Doesn't everyone double 1♣ on this type of hand nowadays?

I think many would pass when partners a PH, a pretty large reason to X with this hand type is so you don't get shut out when you both have this hand type and it's your hand for 3N, that isn't really possible when partner is a passed hand. On top of that we are red so getting involved in competing on a partscore hand is less attractive when it's 100 a trick. And if it does goes XX on your left you are really unhappy to be r/w.

Not saying I'd pass but I might, I'd def strongly consider it. If partner were unpassed or we were white I would X without thinking though.

[PhantomSac]

 whereagles, on 2014-November-22, 07:58, said:

in this sequence, 4+

Does this mean the 1N bidder has denied a 4 card major? If that is the case I would reopen with a double, it seems to me that we must have an 8 card major suit fit (assuming LHO is at least 4-4 in the minors and RHO has at most 3-3 in the majors, that means we have an 8 card major suit fit). If they play Walsh I would def pass.

[mikestar13]

The kind of hand where I would pass 1♣ and act later (over 1NT, for me) has short diamonds. With this turkey, I'm a total reptile.

[Siegmund]

However good or bad doubling 1C on the first round might have been, coming in now, after the opps have pinpointed their strength and established that it's a misfit, seems suicidal.

[rmnka447]

Pass. It's not even close at this point.

I wouldn't make a T/O double over 1 ♣ either.

[whereagles]

 Siegmund, on 2014-November-22, 18:26, said:

(...) after the opps have pinpointed their strength and established that it's a misfit, seems suicidal.

Why misfit? I'm pretty sure it's a fit. The situation is similar to 1♣-1NT-2♣, where you can safely assume opps have a club fit.

And indeed, pard held:

♠ 842
♥ J9862
♦ A85
♣ T9

Dbl works better than 2♠. But still, you rate to go 1 down.

[ArtK78]

 whereagles, on 2014-November-23, 16:00, said:

Why misfit? I'm pretty sure it's a fit. The situation is similar to 1♣-1NT-2♣, where you can safely assume opps have a club fit.

And indeed, pard held:

♠ 842
♥ J9862
♦ A85
♣ T9

Dbl works better than 2♠. But still, you rate to go 1 down.

It is IMPs. If you bid and go one down, what have you gained?

[ArtK78]

 whereagles, on 2014-November-23, 16:00, said:

Why misfit? I'm pretty sure it's a fit. The situation is similar to 1♣-1NT-2♣, where you can safely assume opps have a club fit.

And indeed, pard held:

♠ 842
♥ J9862
♦ A85
♣ T9

Dbl works better than 2♠. But still, you rate to go 1 down.

It is IMPs. If you bid and go one down, what have you gained?

[PhantomSac]

What is the whole "it is imps" argument about? It is much more dangerous to balance at matchpoints, going down 100 vs 90 is a disaster at MP but nothing at imps, going down 200 is a complete disaster at MP and a small loss like 3 at imps.

When you are not going to get doubled, imps is all about winning a double partscore swing rather than losing it. If 2C goes down and 2M goes down, thats bad at imps on this kind of hand (as well as at MP). If 2M and 2C make, thats good at imps as well as at MP. If we push them to 3C going down that is a win at imps as well as MP.

But again, if we go down 100 vs 90 at MP thats very bad and down 200 is also horrible while those are negligible at imps. The whole "BUT IT'S IMPS" thing makes sense if you think you might get doubled and go for a number. Who is going to double us? Apparently neither of them have 4 of either major. They do not even have invitational values. And they're playing IMPS so they're not going to randomly double 2M (which they might at MP if responder has a 10 or 11 count that chose not to invite, gotta get 200 at MP, another reason it is far more dangerous to bid at MP when vul).

I feel like people think in imps you should just not compete on any partscore hand. To me that is silly, given what whereagles has said we have a fit and they have a fit (so lol at calling this a misfit hand). We probably have somewhere between 17 and 22 HCP. On some days they have a 9 card fit. Our fit will never break badly. We know all this from the auction. People say things like OMG THEY MIGHT LEAD A DOUBLETON DIAMOND VS 2M. Well, that's true, but in that case partner has a stiff club since opening leader is 3325. Do you really not want to compete when they have NINE clubs and we have 3 small? You guys have it backwards, it is far more dangerous to bid on these hands at matchpoints than imps. That is often the case on partscore hands where you're vul, but especially on this auction. With no club honors and a guaranteed fit hand for both sides, I think it is far more likely that both 2M and 2C make than that both are down. Sometimes when 2M is down they might misjudge and bid 3C. We are not getting doubled and going for a big number so those are the main considerations.

I would probably even go as far as saying vs good opps I would double at imps and pass at MP, depending on how aggressive I expect partner to be on the auction p 1C p 1D.