[Cyberyeti]

 SimonFa, on 2014-August-10, 02:04, said:

I only play Acol on an ad hoc basis as I find all the jumping around and lack of structure confusing. If I was playing at the club I would read the bidding as:

1♠ = 4+ spades (denies 4 Hearts if it is only on 4 Spades - with some players that might not be true if Spades very much better than Hearts. I usually ask on style but assume I forgot to ask for this hand). Rule of 19 has crept in.
2♣ = 5+ clubs, clubs longer than red suits and 10+HCP. F1.
2♠ = 5+ spades, denies 4 hearts. Says nothing about extra values and is non forcing

You play at a very strange club if this is true.

What do you bid over 1♠ with a 3334, 3424, or 3433, many pairs don't have a natural 2N available and 2♥ is always 5 for almost everybody round here.

Do you really bid 2♥ over 2♣ with ♠AKQJxx, ♥xxxx or with a 7-4 ?

Many pairs open 1N with 5♠332 so 2♠ guarantees 6. I also don't see that 2♠ can deny 4♥ but not deny 4♦.

Also there is a fair split of people who open 1m and 1M with 4M4m32 so there are implications from that too.

[gszes]

Very important to list your basic system and any special agreements you have so others can comment
on who did what right/wrong. The bidding btn 2/1 and sayc can be significant. The main key here is
that since south gave a delayed 4s bid there has to be slam interest and the north hand is quite
slammish especially since they have never had the opportunity to show club support. IMHO over 4s
it would be a decent idea to introduce 6c since south can convert back to spades if the 2c bid was
temporizing.

[Cyberyeti]

 gszes, on 2014-August-10, 08:58, said:

Very important to list your basic system and any special agreements you have so others can comment
on who did what right/wrong. The bidding btn 2/1 and sayc can be significant. The main key here is
that since south gave a delayed 4s bid there has to be slam interest and the north hand is quite
slammish especially since they have never had the opportunity to show club support. IMHO over 4s
it would be a decent idea to introduce 6c since south can convert back to spades if the 2c bid was
temporizing.

Read his sig - "Unless stated, hands I post will be MP and bid with Acol "

[wank]

even playing acol 3s should be forcing imo (yes, i know very well that most acol players would play it as invitational). i bid that as i'm lacking any useful forcing bids (not the first time an acol player has encountered that problem). if north cues 4c and 4h, south might go back to clubs for slam, but this is rather double dummy.

[NickRW]

I think, given the context of the system chosen, North has to go on over 4♠. For South to GF with 3♦ and quite possibly looking for P to have a ♥ stop, only to then remove 3NT to 4♠, is very slammy. In that context North must go on: the hand has 5 controls, 6331 shape, concealed club support and is not a rock bottom min opening.

How to go on is another matter. P will presumably think ♠ are trumps if you RKCB it. 5♣, to me, hardly gets the message across and anything else commits you to 6 anyway. So I vote for an agricultural 6♣

Nick

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

late to the party.

I dont think 4S is the right bid, opener never showed a 6th spade,
so 4S sounds more like 6421 than 5422, with 5422, why remove NT?

The best South could do is raise 3NT to 4NT quantitative, although
opener is limited by just 2S, opener has at most 14HCP, and 14+18
is 32, so not makeing the inv. raise is understandable.
You can upgrade the respondng hand to 19+, which brings you to 33,
so the inv. raise is not out of the question

If opener accepts the invite, he can suggest club as a possible strain,
or show his 6th spade.

Showing the heart stopper, instead of showing the club fit is also
reasonable.

So all in all I would say, next board.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-August-12, 06:51, said:

I dont think 4S is the right bid, opener never showed a 6th spade, so 4S sounds more like 6421 than 5422, with 5422, why remove NT?

This is the whole point and the reason why 4♠ shows a slam try. You would not be removing 3NT to 4♠ here otherwise.

As an aside, there are some versions of Acol where a 6th spade has been promised here. It mostly depends on what you open with a 5♠(332) hand in NT range.

[Lovera]

 eagles123, on 2014-August-08, 04:59, said:

---

Imps

where did we go wrong?

thx

Eagles

In this hand are two suits with 8 cards than it is tendentially a 6-keycBlw but a suit remained hidden. After 2♣ followed by 3♦ partner show force it being answered rever that with touching suits means a 5-4 hand (why doesn't raise ?). About RKB 6 ♣ infact query for Q (why ?-6♠).