[TWO4BRIDGE]

Partner opens 1♠ in 2nd seat ( IMPs, all red if it matters ) 2/1, regular Bergen raises and plain vanilla Jac2NT GF raise.
Pass to you.
In this day and age of light openings, what would you respond with this flat 12 hcp :

A K 8 6
7 6 5
A 6 5
J 6 2

EDIT ( addition ) : Opener's hand is given in post # 11 .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2014-April-29, 08:24

[diana_eva]

IMPs vul matters. Jacoby 2nt for me, and keep an apology handy if it doesn't work out. I like AK A even if the rest of the hand isn't great.

[ggwhiz]

1nt forcing followed by 3♠ is all this hand is worth.

[Bbradley62]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-April-28, 17:18, said:

regular Bergen raises

ggwhiz, on 2014-April-28, 21:12, said:

1nt forcing followed by 3♠ is all this hand is worth.

What would 3♦ show?

[akwoo]

Jacoby 2N. I think the risk of missing slam bidding something else is bigger than the risk of getting to a game when it's too high.

I actually don't like using Jacoby on 4333 hands (and my typical agreement with Bergen raises is that 4333 hands have 3 cards in each suit), but this one is an exception. Knowing partner has a club or heart singleton, or 5 diamonds to the KQ, are both very useful pieces of information.

[rmnka447]

Just about any hand with 3 QTs is an opener in my opinion, so I'm making a game forcing raise. If I play a 3 NT response as a flat game raise that is the bid I would prefer. Otherwise, I'd use a Jacoby 2 NT raise.

IMP scoring dictates that you should bid game with anything that's at all close to making. So, you ought to be there with this hand.

[mikeh]

I make my Bergen limit, whichever way we have agreed to play it (I usually play 3C as limit to maximize space on those hands), and then if partner signs off, I raise to game. If he makes a slam move over the limit, I am very happy.

This simply isn't a J2N hand. Indeed, those who like to use LTC would see this as an awful hand and indeed I would do no more than invite if we weren't red at imps. I'd expect game to fail, if he rejects the limit raise, but we have, I think, just enough to bid the game, especially since with your trump, no way is anyone doubling us.

[diana_eva]

mikeh, on 2014-April-28, 23:14, said:

I make my Bergen limit, whichever way we have agreed to play it (I usually play 3C as limit to maximize space on those hands), and then if partner signs off, I raise to game. If he makes a slam move over the limit, I am very happy.

This simply isn't a J2N hand. Indeed, those who like to use LTC would see this as an awful hand and indeed I would do no more than invite if we weren't red at imps. I'd expect game to fail, if he rejects the limit raise, but we have, I think, just enough to bid the game, especially since with your trump, no way is anyone doubling us.

Yeah your way is better, hadn't thought of that. I was thinking we should be in game, didn't consider going through limit then raising anyway.

[manudude03]

I'm a 2N bidder, I'd be afraid of making a bergen raise and partner making a hesitation signoff.

[mcphee]

I love the bidding warning, todays light opening bids. I suppose you face a problem if you played 1-3S as limit structure. Similar to "west coast Mike" I take the 3 of a minor showing a limit and the raise when partner rejects. On a bad day they cash 6 red tricks! Partner says "I told ya" you say "oh well"

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Opener's hand was:
Q 10 9 5 2
A 10 3
Q 7 3
A 9

Like MikeH, I too thought Responder's 9 Loser Trick Count hand was only worth a Bergen 3D limit raise.
Normally, after an upper Bergen raise, Declarer is all but assured of at least making game.

But I think a 3S rebid by Opener should warn of a minimum opening ( no more than 12 hcp and no great distribution ) .
This would allow Responder a rare PASS with his flat 12 hcp and 9 loser hand.

As it was, everyone was in 4S ( one way or another ) and all were off 1 .

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-April-29, 08:23, said:

As it was, everyone was in 4S ( one way or another ) and all were off 1 .

How is 3NT looking?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Zelandakh, on 2014-April-29, 08:30, said:

How is 3NT looking?

No one played in 3NT , but it looks like only 8 tricks would be made .

[Zelandakh]

Yeah, is not a great contract either but looks quite likely in an English room via the inspired auction of 1NT - 3NT. I was speculating that the lead might come from a 4 card suit and ♦K onside, in which case the English little old ladies are scoring up over Mike nicely!

[whereagles]

It's a bit of a guess... if pard happens to have a singleton, the hand is golden for a slam. So I think I would make the slight overbid of 2NT just to check on that...

...if I ever agree to play the standard bergen/jacoby scheme, which I find horrible.

[ggwhiz]

I understand Jacoby 2nt followed by game but I don't understand Bergen followed by running through the stop sign unless you are angling for a new partner.

I treated this as a 3-card limit (just lucky) because my regular partner regularly treats 4 trumps as 3 and 3 as 4 depending on the hand. She is right 99% of the time and I'm still wondering how she does it.

[mike777]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-April-29, 08:23, said:

Opener's hand was:
Q 10 9 5 2
A 10 3
Q 7 3
A 9

Like MikeH, I too thought Responder's 9 Loser Trick Count hand was only worth a Bergen 3D limit raise.
Normally, after an upper Bergen raise, Declarer is all but assured of at least making game.

But I think a 3S rebid by Opener should warn of a minimum opening ( no more than 12 hcp and no great distribution ) .
This would allow Responder a rare PASS with his flat 12 hcp and 9 loser hand.

As it was, everyone was in 4S ( one way or another ) and all were off 1 .

3d limit raise.

responder hand is a typical adjusted 8.5 loser hand in LTC. 8 loser is a limit raise in LTC...9 loser hand is a mixed raise or 3c in Bergen.(9 loser but plus .5 for your Aces and kings)
Opener is a typical adjusted 7.5 loser hand. easy pass.(2s, 2h 2.5 d, 1c=7.5)

[kuhchung]

agree with manudude, I am NOT showing the limit raise and maybe partner will tank a little and then hey I'll bid game now!

if the plan is to show a 4 card raise and then ignore opener's decision, at least we can start with the mixed raise and then bid game over it. now we have no LA.

[perko90]

kuhchung, on 2014-April-29, 16:35, said:

agree with manudude, I am NOT showing the limit raise and maybe partner will tank a little and then hey I'll bid game now!

if the plan is to show a 4 card raise and then ignore opener's decision, at least we can start with the mixed raise and then bid game over it. now we have no LA.

Yikes! Bergen limit raise followed by a game raise over a sign-off is standard stuff in my book. However, only showing a Bergen mixed raise - with 3 key cards! - risks much more. You could miss slam and, even worse, lose partner's trust.

[fromageGB]

I routinely downgrade a 4333 into 3-card support, and while the aces and kings are nice, the other 10 cards compensate. So I make whatever the 3-card game invitation is, in my case 2♣ then 2♠ over the 2♦ relay.

Opener knows it is teams as well as I do, so there is no need for me to adjust because of that; we leave the push to the final bid. If partner wishes to make a try with 2NT, 3♠ or whatever, I accept and bid 4♠. If he passes, I'm happy.