[benlessard]

I dont really have the time to read all of the above, im wondering if there is a text of the defense arguments/rebuttal in english ?

[nige1]

mgoetze, on 2014-September-16, 12:17, said:

What recordings? A director took notes and testified about them. Do you want to see them in his handwriting or what do you mean by "recordings"?

Lessons might have been learnt from the Reese-Shapiro cheating investigation. Among criticisms (made at the time and since) are:

• Observers were told the alleged code before making their observations.
• There were observational discrepancies. For example, Sami Kehela, American team coach, noticed nothing significant, although he was also told the alleged code in advance and observed some of the same boards as other witnesses.

There was ample time to set up video/sound recording for the Cavendish. Such evidence might corroborate the written records of the observer.

[the hog]

benlessard, on 2014-September-16, 15:49, said:

I dont really have the time to read all of the above, im wondering if there is a text of the defense arguments/rebuttal in english ?

Yes, there is.

[mgoetze]

nige1, on 2014-September-16, 18:00, said:

There was ample time to set up video/sound recording for the Cavendish.

But it wasn't done apparently, so why do you keep demanding nonexistent recordings?

[benlessard]

Quote

Yes, there is.

Yes, there is. Do you have a link or its not available ?

[nige1]

mgoetze, on 2014-September-16, 19:54, said:

But it wasn't done apparently, so why do you keep demanding nonexistent recordings?

How does mgoetze know that there are no relevant Cavendish recordngs? It seems more likely that recordings were made. Were they botched? Do they fail to confirm the allegations, conclusively? Or are they being kept as a Mr_Ace in the hole?

[mycroft]

nige1, on 2014-September-16, 18:00, said:

For example, Sami Kehela, American team coach,...

Eeich. That scrapes like nails on a blackboard every time I hear it.

*North American* team coach, please...

[aguahombre]

Does Eric prefer "North American American Team Coach?"

[mycroft]

Well, in this case, it was the North American Team. The fact that, that year, all three pairs were U.S. doesn't change that.

Eric would probably also prefer "coach of the <team> team" whatever it is :-)

[BillHiggin]

The German team has been stripped of their title and medals. The Lynch team has been declared the winners!
The 3rd and 4th place teams have also been moved up in the final standings.
I would post a link to the bulletin from Sanya that reports this, but the target PDF file has an error (I read it ok, but many others cannot).

(now we can have 3 weeks of meaningless discussions about how one of the other teams might have been the winner if not coughed out earlier by the doctors!)

[MrAce]

BillHiggin, on 2014-October-13, 15:58, said:

(now we can have 3 weeks of meaningless discussions about how one of the other teams might have been the winner if not coughed out earlier by the doctors!)

No we won't, because there is no evidence to support the idea that other teams were cheated too. We all can predict that they were, but what we think is irrelevant in the eye of law. US team did better than other teams even if other teams were cheated, by paying more attention than other teams to what was going on at the table. Germans played vs a lot of European opponents in the past, and this was Eddie's first encounter with them and he nailed them in this first encounter. Their effort also helped entire bridge community so that no team in the world will lose their title to this pair in the future. This is how I see it.

[lamford]

MrAce, on 2014-October-13, 16:31, said:

No we won't, because there is no evidence to support the idea that other teams were cheated too. We all can predict that they were, but what we think is irrelevant in the eye of law.

I think I agree. However, in athletics, everyone moves up, as happened with Ben Johnson's gold being awarded to Carl Lewis. The German doctors are assumed to be disqualified from the whole event, but I am not aware of whether the rules of the event cover how the various medals are then decided.

[MrAce]

lamford, on 2014-October-13, 17:01, said:

I think I agree. However, in athletics, everyone moves up, as happened with Ben Johnson's gold being awarded to Carl Lewis. The German doctors are assumed to be disqualified from the whole event, but I am not aware of whether the rules of the even cover how the various medals are then decided.

In BW someone wrote "Poland moves to second, France to third." but I am having hard time to download the WBF- PDF

Edit: sorry for the bold, copied and pasted from BW.

[BillHiggin]

MrAce, on 2014-October-13, 17:07, said:

In BW someone wrote "Poland moves to second, France to third." but I am having hard time to download the WBF- PDF

That is indeed what the bulletin says (not sure why the download worked for me)

[MrAce]

Copy and paste

Quote

1. Germany results to be disqualified from the2013 d'Orsi Seniors Trophy;
2. Germany is stripped from any placement inthe 2013 d'Orsi Seniors Trophy;
3. The Gold Medals are revoked from Germanyand all the members of the German Seniors Team and have to be returned to the WBF together with the d'Orsi Trophy and its Replicas;
4. The title of World Champion is revoked from Germany and all the members of the German Seniors Team;
5. The WBF Master Points awarded to any member of the German Seniors Team are removed, And by majority of votes (18 in favour, 1 against and 4 abstentions),states
6. The final ranking of the 2013 d'Orsi Seniors Trophy is modified, elevating the teams which finished second (USA), third (Poland) and fourth (France) to respectively first, second and third, awarding them the relevant Medals, Titles, Trophies,
Replicas and WBF Master Points;.

[jallerton]

After all this time, if you go to the home page of the European Bridge League website , you can still see a picture of the "winners" on the 2013 World Seniors Bowl final with their medals. Not much point in stripping people of their medals if the Zone still leaves their photo on its website!

[MrAce]

jallerton, on 2014-October-20, 16:35, said:

After all this time, if you go to the home page of the European Bridge League website , you can still see a picture of the "winners" on the 2013 World Seniors Bowl final with their medals. Not much point in stripping people of their medals if the Zone still leaves their photo on its website!

You know how lazy people are to update their site. But if you meant they do not recognize the decision of WBF, then it is totally different thing that I did not know.

[jallerton]

I agree that many websites have obsolete pages on rarely viewed of their websites.

But I would expect someone from the EBL to have looked at their own home page at some point during the last seven months and to reccognise that it's more than a little insensitive to be highlighting the achievement of this particular team (whether they agree with the decision or not).

[Cthulhu D]

I'm honestly surprised no-one has used an electronic device to cheat. That would the easiest way to do so. That hardest part would be getting the signal from the computer to you. LEDs in the glasses is high risk. People have used vibrations but that might be too loud for bridge.

[Vampyr]

mycroft, on 2014-September-17, 13:50, said:

Well, in this case, it was the North American Team. The fact that, that year, all three pairs were U.S. doesn't change that.

LOL