[eagles123]

---

I wasn't too sure what to bid here and considered it relatively close between:

2 clubs, 2 hearts and 2 spades

in the end I went for

Spoiler

2 spades

but I wasn't sure if that was right or not and would be interested in opinions!

Thanks,

Eagles

[EricK]

I don't think this is strong enough to reverse, and in such cases I prefer to raise a major with 3 card support, rather than rebid a 5 card suit, so 2♠ for me. But some partners pretty much demand 4 cards for the raise. In which case I bid 2♣, and hope we aren't left in a 5-1 (or 5-0!) "fit".

[wyman]

You don't have enough for 2H.


I don't like 2C, though it's not the worst ever. This should really show 6 or an excellent 5. You have merely a good 5.

So by process of elimination, I'd raise to 2S. Partner and I have a method for checking back in case he's invitational and wants to see whether I have 3 or 4 and whether I'm min or max (you are 3/max) so that we can end up in the right strain and at the right level, but I won't get deep into that here.

[TylerE]

 wyman, on 2013-August-15, 14:11, said:

You don't have enough for 2H.


I don't like 2C, though it's not the worst ever. This should really show 6 or an excellent 5. You have merely a good 5.

So what do I have to have to bid 2♣ in your opinion? AKQJx?

Personally, and I know this is not the "modern" trendy thing to do, but I *hate* 2♠ here. Life is so much easier on a bread and butter auction like 1m-1M-2M if responder is guaranteed an 8 card fit at least 99.9% of the time. I rebid 2♣ on these cards and don't feel the least bit guilty about it.

[Antrax]

I bid 2♣ here because I'm from a part of the world where you very rarely raise on 3 and my club suit is robust enough that I prefer rebidding it. If you're okay with raising on three then this is a hand to raise on three.
Another option you might want to consider on a 3=4=1=5 hand in this auction is 1NT. It's pretty bad when it goes 1NT-3NT, unless your opponents always lead a heart on this auction because you lead majors vs. NT. In other scenarios, though, you survive.

[the hog]

2S is obvious for me and for anyone I play with regularly.

[eagles123]

thanks everyone!

[CamHenry]

I may go out on a limb here and rebid 2♥. I know you're sub-minimum, but to me the Kxx in partner's suit makes up for that. If you don't play reverses as GF (and I don't think many people do), you can stop in 3♠ at worst.

[mcphee]

I would like to have 4 trumps to raise, just not always possible, and here the raise to 2S to me is just the most sensible choice. When partners hear you rebid 2C they have every reason to expect 6, while this is not always the case when a major is raised to know about 4 card support.

What is the reason for panic about the 3 card raise? If partner passes you are not going to be in a poor spot. Nor if he does anything else.

[Antrax]

 mcphee, on 2013-August-16, 04:41, said:

What is the reason for panic about the 3 card raise? If partner passes you are not going to be in a poor spot. Nor if he does anything else.

The bad auction is 1♣-1♠, 2♠-4♠ when 3NT was our spot. I'm sure that's not a problem in your partnership, but if the partnership style is to require four cards, then most of us don't have the tools to figure out when opener raised on three.

[StevenG]

 mcphee, on 2013-August-16, 04:41, said:

What is the reason for panic about the 3 card raise? If partner passes you are not going to be in a poor spot. Nor if he does anything else.

I've watched my partners butcher so many Moysians that, where possible, I avoid any prospect of them like the plague.

[helene_t]

if we bid up the line then partner will in principle have 4 spades only when he has <4 diamonds. In that case notrumps is unlikely to be better than spades. But of course it is possible that we end up in 6♠ when we should have been in 6♣, if we don't have a way to clarify opener's spade length.

Playing Walsh it's a bit different but even so I think it is worthwhile to discuss with partner how to deal with a possible 3-card raise.

[EricK]

 CamHenry, on 2013-August-16, 04:20, said:

I may go out on a limb here and rebid 2♥. I know you're sub-minimum, but to me the Kxx in partner's suit makes up for that. If you don't play reverses as GF (and I don't think many people do), you can stop in 3♠ at worst.

I think you are going to need very firm agreements as to follow ups if you are to reliably stay out of game when partner has a little more than a minimum, but bid to the right game if he has a bit more than that.

[cargobeep]

Interesting to note the topic below this one, with the very similiar title

I think 2♠ is probably best. Second best I would think is 1NT. Why do we want to be in 2♣ with a potential 6-card trump suit?

[Siegmund]

This hand is dangerously close to being too strong to risk a discouraging rebid like 2♠, rather than the ambiguous 2♣ or encouraging 2♥. On the posted hand, you may get away with 2♠; make it a tiny bit stronger -- add a stray jack or something -- and 2♠ is now telling two lies, partner expecting a minimum opening and four spades.
I worry a lot more about languishing in 2♠+4, than I do about reaching 4♠ when 3NT was better.

As such I quite often make slightly subminimum reverses when I have 3-card support for my partner's major; I would at least seriously consider 2♥ on the posted hand -- but not even dream of 2♥ on x KTxx Kxx AKJxx (or the same hand with a jack added or a king turned into an ace.)

All assuming you and your partner know what your continuations after reverses are, of course - an area that is a minefield for many novices (and advancing players, hence the forum sticky in the int/adv forum)

[the hog]

 Antrax, on 2013-August-16, 04:57, said:

The bad auction is 1♣-1♠, 2♠-4♠ when 3NT was our spot. I'm sure that's not a problem in your partnership, but if the partnership style is to require four cards, then most of us don't have the tools to figure out when opener raised on three.

Then why not get them? Use 2S over 2H and 2NT over 2S as an ask.

[Cyberyeti]

 StevenG, on 2013-August-16, 07:01, said:

I've watched my partners butcher so many Moysians that, where possible, I avoid any prospect of them like the plague.

Find better partners

[Antrax]

 the hog, on 2013-August-18, 05:03, said:

Then why not get them? Use 2S over 2H and 2NT over 2S as an ask.

I personally use those as a short-suit game try.

[mgoetze]

I think it cannot be emphasized enough that you should only bid 2♠ here if your partner knows that you regularily do so with only 3-card support. Yes, that style has a lot of fans on these forums, but as pointed out by Antrax there are parts of the world where it is almost unheard of and if your partner will be surprised then you are much better off playing it straight and bidding 2♣.

[helene_t]

 the hog, on 2013-August-18, 05:03, said:

Then why not get them? Use 2S over 2H and 2NT over 2S as an ask.

This is the N/B forum ..... it may be appropriate to advice partner not to blast 4♠ with only four spades. He could suggest 3NT with a suitable hand. But an artificial asking bid is not on the menu imho.