[Shugart23]

[quote name='FM75' timestamp='1374011206' post='739037']
Maybe you should consider some other alternatives:
1C - 1x
pass = 0-4 - Having partner guess, seems wrong IMO
X = 5-7(8)
any other bid is positive response

The problem with this is that you need a way to punish the opponent that overcalls 1C with 5 spades to the Queen and 8 points vulnerable, hence the trap pass.

Partner can 'usually' tell by his own holding in opponent's suit

[jeffford76]

blackshoe, on 2013-July-18, 02:07, said:

Um, per a recent change in the GCC, a 'short club' is natural (by definition) if it shows precisely 4=4=3=2 distribution. Since it's natural, defenses allowed under item 7 in the "competitive" section of the GCC are not permitted against this short club. If the 'short club' could include other distributions, then it is not natural, and any defense is allowed (which is what item 7 says).

I'm not sure why you think anyone is confused about this.

I meant that it is not common to play an artificial defense against players who play a short club that it is legal to play an artificial defense to.

[Vampyr]

jeffford76, on 2013-July-18, 12:24, said:

I'm not sure why you think anyone is confused about this.

I meant that it is not common to play an artificial defense against players who play a short club that it is legal to play an artificial defense to.

It's not unusual in the UK. Of course it is more useful here on grounds of frequency, because no opening of doubletons is considered "natural".

[Vampyr]

awm, on 2013-July-16, 23:23, said:

This is not actually true. Only the 1♣ opening that is 3+♣ or 4432 in that order has been categorized as natural. A 1♣ opening that includes other balanced shapes with doubleton club (i.e. 4342 or even 3352) is not considered natural. The reason as I understand it is to protect beginners (and life-beginners) who play 1♦ showing four... not to protect the advanced-plus crowd playing the increasingly popular method where 1♦ is 4+♦ unbalanced and 1♣ includes all weak notrumps.

There isn't a place on the convention card to distinguish between these methods; some players will mark it anyway and others won't. In general it's best to ask when opponents announce "could be short" if it makes any difference to you -- this is rather annoying in that it removes some of the benefit of announcements over alerts (if you have to ask anyway, might as well alert).

Which method is more popular? Maybe a slight expansion of the announcements would make sense; we have this in the UK -- sometimes announcements of openings are announced "Strong, non-forcing" or "weak to intermediate" etc.

Very impressed with your first sentence. Had I replied first I would not have been able to to resist something along the lines of "that is complete and utter bollocks"

[awm]

Vampyr, on 2013-July-18, 17:46, said:

Which method is more popular? Maybe a slight expansion of the announcements would make sense; we have this in the UK -- sometimes announcements of openings are announced "Strong, non-forcing" or "weak to intermediate" etc.

I've seen four different versions of "short" club:

1. Always 3+ except 4432 in that order; 1♦ is 4+
2. Any hand without a 5-card non-club suit; 1♦ is 5+
3. Any balanced hand (or any hand with clubs); 1♦ is 4+ and unbalanced
4. Some nebulous "catch-all" as part of a strong diamond system.

Overall the frequency of these in ACBL is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4. However, this changes a bit in a mid-chart event because of the combination of a stronger field and the legality of transfer responses to 1♣. In that case the frequency is 3 > 2 > 1 > 4.

[Vampyr]

awm, on 2013-July-18, 20:10, said:

I've seen four different versions of "short" club:

1. Always 3+ except 4432 in that order; 1♦ is 4+
2. Any hand without a 5-card non-club suit; 1♦ is 5+
3. Any balanced hand (or any hand with clubs); 1♦ is 4+ and unbalanced
4. Some nebulous "catch-all" as part of a strong diamond system.

Overall the frequency of these in ACBL is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4. However, this changes a bit in a mid-chart event because of the combination of a stronger field and the legality of transfer responses to 1♣. In that case the frequency is 3 > 2 > 1 > 4.

Thanks. Are systems such as Polish Club popular in mid-chart events?

[awm]

Vampyr, on 2013-July-18, 20:58, said:

Thanks. Are systems such as Polish Club popular in mid-chart events?

Very rarely encounter Polish Club. Strong club variants are fairly common though.