[Winstonm]

I saw this type hand bid once with Jeff McStroth and his partner (whom I cannot recall at the moment) but it was announced that 2S showed an A and a K but McStroth held a hand with all the aces - so he surmised the good suit and bid slam in that suit with AK as support.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Dale57, on 2013-July-11, 07:41, said:

The complete E/W hands:

---

Trying helen's method. post # 17 :
East
2C - 2D!
3H! ( 4h / longer ♦ )
...... - ??
...... 3S = either a Ctrl-cue for ♥ or NT probe
......3NT = agree neither red suit
...... 4C = cue agreeing ♥; denies ♠ - Ctrl
...... 4D = agree ♦

after: - 4C
4S! = kickback RKC for ♥
...... - 5C ( 1/4 )
5D ( ♥Q-ask )
...... - 6C ( ♥Q + ♣K ; denies ♦ K which would have been the cheaper 5NT reply )
6H

[aguahombre]

helene_t, on 2013-July-12, 07:32, said:

Some pairs play that a 3♥ rebid shows specifically four hearts and longer diamonds.

RMB1, on 2013-July-13, 11:26, said:

2C-2D-3S shows 4 S and longer diamonds

2C-2D-3C-3D(waiting)-3M shows 4 Ms and long clubs

If the real hand is as shown by two4, even a 1D opening and a 2H reverse will get us to 7H.

If the above quoted methods are part of a pair's style, I am beginning to see why there are so many who believe they should get in opener's way with positive values and a topless suit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-14, 10:57, said:

...... even a 1D opening and a 2H reverse will get us to 7H.

In order to get to 7H, Responder needs to do the "asking" ( RKC ) on this hand .

[aguahombre]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-July-14, 13:15, said:

In order to get to 7H, Responder needs to do the "asking" ( RKC ) on this hand .

That would be correct, because of the trick source in spades. There are ways to do that as long as East doesn't start bouncing around when hearts are raised. Actually, 7NT would be the safe final contract, counting the 13 tricks.

[Zelandakh]

Don, after 3♥ I think it would be more common to play 3♠ as natural. Whether to play 4♣ as natural might depend on what hands can be contained within the 2♦ response. Regardless, I think it is sensible for Responder to take control after 3♥ here having responded 2♦ - partner can never play us for this hand.

[Dale57]

Winstonm hit the nail on the head! Partner and I don't have any "sophisticated" agreements- that's why I keep posting here She went into the tank and eventually bid 6♠. Since she didn't ask for aces, I was SURE we had all four (yep, no Key Card). The K♠ was still a mystery but I felt I had extras and bid 7. The four hands:

---

Fortunately for us, North led his stiff ♦ rather than a safe ♥.

[aguahombre]

Yes, that is why 7NT after West counts 13 tricks is the safe final contract. Nothing terribly sophisticated about West asking for Aces and the king of spades unless East gets in the way.

[Dale57]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-15, 15:59, said:

Yes, that is why 7NT after West counts 13 tricks is the safe final contract. Nothing terribly sophisticated about West asking for Aces and the king of spades unless East gets in the way.

??? Yes, I realize 7N with 13 top tricks is better. At what point can West count 13 tricks? At what point does West ask for aces- over 2♣ or over 6♠? We don't have a way to ask for the K♠.

[aguahombre]

Dale57, on 2013-July-15, 19:01, said:

??? Yes, I realize 7N with 13 top tricks is better. At what point can West count 13 tricks? At what point does West ask for aces- over 2♣ or over 6♠? We don't have a way to ask for the K♠.

It is easier, as I said earlier, if our style does not fit a 2C opening with the given hand.

1D-1S
2H-3H (Leben)
3S-4NT..If there are six key cards on this auction, we can count 13 tricks. If there aren't we have to ask for specific kings after finding all the bullets.

Won't get back into the debate about what a 2C opener followed by 3m should look like, and really don't care what others (except partner) have decided on the subject. It was an observation that West could easily take over and count tricks on the above start.

[Zelandakh]

Dale57, on 2013-July-15, 19:01, said:

At what point can West count 13 tricks?

After East shows 4 aces and the ♠K. Making wild jumps like your partner's in game-forcing auctions without any real idea of where you want to end up is always likely to cause problems. Was South asleep by the way? This would be a more interesting discussion after a preempt in second hand.