[Hanoi5]

All red, MP's:

♠Kx
♥9xxx
♦9xx
♣AKT9

(1♥)-Pa-(2♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♣-(3♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♠-(Pa)-???

[nige1]

Hanoi5, on 2013-July-08, 21:13, said:

All red, MP's: ♠ K x ♥ 9 x x x ♦ 9 x x ♣ A K T 9
(1♥)-Pa-(2♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♣-(3♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♠-(Pa)-???

IMO 5♣ = 10, 4♥ = 9, 6♣ = 7.
Partner probably has a weak skewed shapely black two suiter (e.g. 57).

[bigbenvic]

I think 5 clubs is a shot but reckon that he may only have AQxx x xx QJxxxx and 3 losers are possible.

Note that partner didn't bid over 1h and as such slam looks a long long way away, even with me having 3 valuable honours for him.

I think we can beat 4 hearts, make 4 clubs and 5 is going to need him to not have the Qs and have a red winner.

I'll bid 4 clubs, I wish 3nt was encouraging in some way but I don't think I've ever discussed this situation so I wouldn't want to try that on here.

I kind of hope they bid 4h so I can double and get 3 black winners and a spade ruff when 5c isn't a make.

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2013-July-08, 21:13, said:

All red, MP's:

♠Kx
♥9xxx
♦9xx
♣AKT9

(1♥)-Pa-(2♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♣-(3♥)-Pa
(Pa)-3♠-(Pa)-???

Pd did not bid over 1♥. The reason he is bidding like a bull in china town with a hand that he can not take any action over 1♥ is probably because he is guessing/hoping you have the values that you indeed have, probably better than he hoped for but still i believe there is no need for punishing him for not letting them play 2 or 3♥. Lack of 2♠ over 2♥ tells us he is probably 4-7 and something like QJxx x K QTxxxxxx. He must have some wasted red suit honor, probably a stiff red honor, or opponents would not easily sit on 2♥. Of course he may hold the hand Bigbenvic constructed too, but it is a matter of style i guess, i would overcall 2♣ with that hand.

One thing that surprised me is Nige1 giving credit to 6♣ bid with this hand vs a pd who passed 1♥

I would settle in 4♣ and hope they don't reevaluate their hand and bid 4♥. I strongly believe at least one of them was underbidding, considering that at least one of them has a stiff or void in clubs, maybe both. And because my pd did not have the hcps to bid over 1♥ with shortness in their suit and at least 10 card blacks. There are other things as well that does not add up in this auction for me, but we will see

[helene_t]

MrAce, on 2013-July-09, 03:01, said:

Lack of 2♠ over 2♥ tells us he is probably 4-7 and something like QJxx x K QTxxxxxx.

Interesting, so a balancing 2♠ would typically be a 4-card suit? Makes sense. But it requires an aggressive overcall style since otherwise you wouldn't be able to show a 5-card spade suit if you don't overcall directly.

[MrAce]

helene_t, on 2013-July-09, 03:11, said:

Interesting, so a balancing 2♠ would typically be a 4-card suit? Makes sense. But it requires an aggressive overcall style since otherwise you wouldn't be able to show a 5-card spade suit if you don't overcall directly.

No and yes.

No because i only meant that lack of 2♠ bid, over 2♥, in balancing seat, tells us pd does not have 5 of them. (in the OP hand) Correct me if i am wrong but i think most of us would choose 2♠ with a 5 card spade even if we had 6 card clubs, no ?

Yes, i play the method that you just explained. DBL denies 4 card spade in order to prevent from playing 3-3 fit, when balancing 2♥ after 1♥-2♥ auction. 2♠ can be 5 cards sometimes which looks like a 4 card, due to lack of overcall as you stated. This of course, just like all toys have downsides. When you bid 2♠ in balancing seat over 2♥ you are basically telling pd that you do have another place to play if he holds only 2 spade, and the downside is you willl not be able to play 5-2 2♠ when your spades don't look like a 5 carder.

[PhilKing]

5♣. I'm not going to over-think it.

The trouble with trying to reason it out is that there is a pretty big chance in "impossible" situations that we would not have bid partner's hand the same way. So just make the obvious bid.

[MrAce]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-09, 03:35, said:

5♣. I'm not going to over-think it.

The trouble with trying to reason it out is that there is a pretty big chance in "impossible" situations that we would not have bid partner's hand the same way. So just make the obvious bid.

So you think your pd can be stronger than AQxx x xx QJxxxx or Qxxx x K Qxxxxxxx ?

Onlything that comes to my mind is something like

Axxx x x Qxxxxxxx

which makes 5♣ but then their sitting on 2♥ doesn't add up. Oh well, as i said there a lot of things that doesn't make too much sense to me in this auction anyway

[PhilKing]

MrAce, on 2013-July-09, 03:42, said:

So you think your pd can be stronger than AQxx x xx QJxxxx or Qxxx x K Qxxxxxxx ?

I think pard is a fish and has misbid. Failing that, they were cold for slam.

[gnasher]

To explain the opponents' passivity, I expect partner to have some red-suit honours. Something like Qxxx A K Jxxxxxx, perhaps. Anyway, game is cold opposite an ace, so we can hardly not bid 5C.

[wanoff]

Most likely shape for partner will be 6-4 and there may be 3 off the top,
but he could be something like ♠Axxx, ♥x, ♦Kx, ♣Qxxxxx.
If he does have this hand or is even more distributional, what's your excuse going to be ?
It's unlikely they'll go 4H but I think I'll bid 5C before they get the chance.