[RunemPard]

Hands are 100% accurate now...they posted them to web...

Opponents are first to bid from west. We are vulnerable and the opponents are non-vulnerable. This is a team match and the bidding goes...

W----N---E---S
(1♥)-X--(P)-2♣
(P)--3♣-AP


Note...we are not playing cue-bids in opponents suit as strong raise. Partner has not learnt this yet...and she insists that I do not push new things on her currently. So playing a system where you cannot show a strong raise by bidding 2H...was my bidding correct. I understand that 2H is most likely my best bid, but this was simply not an option.

The hands were something like...

Me as north (after west opening 1H) holding...

♠KQ
♥Q5
♦A94
♣AK9754

Partner as south holding...

♠A86
♥T42
♦K85
♣QT63


I did not want to make a 4C jump holding Qx in hearts even though I knew of a 10+ card fit. I felt that 3C should get a response if partner has more than a drop-dead boring hand. The shape sucks, but she has 9 HCP including an ace, a king, and the Q of clubs after I have made a TOx and raised a minor.

So...Did I bid correctly from north...? Or should I have gone to 4 instead of 3 anyways?

[Fluffy]

3♣ is a slight underbid, but with 9HCP partner should had already jumpe to 3♣ herself, when you raise she has a monster

[Cyberyeti]

Unfortunately the question you've asked is equivalent to "I'm playing SAYC have a 13 count with 6 spades but I'm not allowed to open 1♠", 2♥ is so the only bid there is no second choice. You have to guess entirely if this is not allowed. What would partner have taken it as ? asking for a stop ? in which case it's not so bad. Opposite xxx, Kxx, Kxx, xxxx 3N is where you want to be most of the time.

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-09, 17:29, said:

3♣ is a slight underbid, but with 9HCP partner should had already jumpe to 3♣ herself, when you raise she has a monster

Yes but - a beginner never thinks that way and thinks the raise doesn't show that much. I just got a crap result today because somebody raised 1♠-X-P-2♥ to game with an indifferent 16 with 3 hearts, and partner needed to lead his stiff and then underlead AQxx to beat it which was beyond him. Beginners never read these auctions correctly and assume that you would jump if you had as much as you did so there's no need for them to.

[Fluffy]

Not really, 2♥ on this spot is not normally a strong raise, its a undefined strong hand, and normally only has 3 clubs.

raising is 16-18, here is an overbid just because the 6 card support makes it even better than that

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-January-09, 17:46, said:

Not really, 2♥ on this spot is not normally a strong raise, its a undefined strong hand, and normally only has 3 clubs.

raising is 16-18, here is an overbid just because the 6 card support makes it even better than that

But followed up by bidding clubs is a monster raise.

[mikeh]

I wouldn't have had the problem, tho I might have had a similar outcome: I would have overcalled 2♣. This hand is not worth its hcp, with KQ tight and Qx in their suit. Now, I have high requirements for takeout doubles of a major when I am short in the other major, and appreciate that I may be in a minority. In addition, what I would do if partner raised me to 3♣ is an interesting situation, unless I am allowed to bid 3♥.

[the hog]

3C is not an underbid, but is correct. Your partner erred in not realising you have a strong hand for this auction. As pointed out a 3C bid initially is right.

[RunemPard]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-09, 17:34, said:

Unfortunately the question you've asked is equivalent to "I'm playing SAYC have a 13 count with 6 spades but I'm not allowed to open 1♠", 2♥ is so the only bid there is no second choice. You have to guess entirely if this is not allowed. What would partner have taken it as ? asking for a stop ? in which case it's not so bad. Opposite xxx, Kxx, Kxx, xxxx 3N is where you want to be most of the time.

I don't get this...it is standard to every bridge player that when you have opening strength and a major that you bid the major. This is basic. Cue bidding opponents suit take agreements. When no agreement is made, you are just asking for your beginner partner to be confused. She always asks me to bid more simple with her. I listened this time, although all I was thinking about the whole time was the 2H bidding card. Had I bid 2H, I can honestly say that she would have no clue what-so-ever as to what I mean and bid either...

A) 2NT thinking I am showing a heart stopper (LOL)...
B) Just bid 3C because she seems to just sit there bidding the same BS again and again when confused...or
C) PASS my 2H bid...

Based on these 3 possible outcomes...I chose to give my partner a raise in her suit...which I assumed to her would say...hey pard I LOVE your clubs...can you please continue if you have better than a zip hand. She seemed to not realize that for all I know she can be sitting on a super awesome 0 HCP hand. So in conclusion...I have no idea how you can compare opening a 13 point count hand with 6 spades with 1S and making a 2H cue-bid.

[Cyberyeti]

RunemPard, on 2013-January-09, 18:06, said:

I don't get this...it is standard to every bridge player that when you have opening strength and a major that you bid the major. This is basic. Cue bidding opponents suit take agreements. When no agreement is made, you are just asking for your beginner partner to be confused. She always asks me to bid more simple with her. I listened this time, although all I was thinking about the whole time was the 2H bidding card. Had I bid 2H, I can honestly say that she would have no clue what-so-ever as to what I mean and bid either...

A) 2NT thinking I am showing a heart stopper (LOL)...
B) Just bid 3C because she seems to just sit there bidding the same BS again and again when confused...or
C) PASS my 2H bid...

Based on these 3 possible outcomes...I chose to give my partner a raise in her suit...which I assumed to her would say...hey pard I LOVE your clubs...can you please continue if you have better than a zip hand. She seemed to not realize that for all I know she can be sitting on a super awesome 0 HCP hand. So in conclusion...I have no idea how you can compare opening a 13 point count hand with 6 spades with 1S and making a 2H cue-bid.

That the cue bid shows a strong hand (although not necessarily which strong hands) was basically the first bit of competitive bidding I was taught, and really is that basic.

[RunemPard]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-09, 18:11, said:

That the cue bid shows a strong hand (although not necessarily which strong hands) was basically the first bit of competitive bidding I was taught, and really is that basic.

Welcome to Sweden...I have never once seen a single player at numerous clubs here bid strong raise cue-bids. Even from the much stronger players, who are rather great players. Extremely basic and I am in a very, very small minority...Some play stop ask bids, but for most this bid is nothing...

[Fluffy]

I taught cuebids to my partner in december.

next week I open 1♠, LHO overcalls 2♠ (michaels) , and my partner bds 3♠, he blinks his eye to me. Dummy came with 16 points and 5 card fit. He was cuebidding.

[Codo]

I don't know your borderline for a powerdouble, I would have bid 2 ♣ and presumably play there opposite your partner...

Later I like 3 ♣, you raised opposite a possible zero count.

I like partners 2 ♣ with a horrible 3334, but now she MUST raise to a game....

[rhm]

I disagree with the initial takeout double. A 2♣ overcall would have got a raise from partner.
I agree with your partner response of 2♣. A jump to the three level in a minor in response to a takeout double should not be based on a weak 4 card suit.
It is tough to make a living on 4-3 fits in minors at the three-level.
It is true that your raise shows a good hand, though strictly limited by the failure to take stronger actions, and responder has undisclosed values.
However, which game looks promising from responders point of view without hindsight?
3NT is out and with this distribution I would not see where 11 tricks should come from, even if we nominally have the values for game.
A minor suit game requires around 29 points including distribution. Where are they?
After all responder can hardly anticipate that you have 6 card support.
I also doubt that you would have bid your hand differently with

♠KQ4
♥Q5
♦A94
♣AK975

and many others more likely hands.
The blame on South is hypocritical. If I would blame anybody, it would be North, not South.

Rainer Herrmann

[P_Marlowe]

#0 2H in the given sequeunce is not a club raise.
#1 The raise to 3C showed your hand.
#2 Partner had to act, even with 0 HCP, partner has 9HCP, 2 tricks more,
so she has to move.
This is not a new agreement, this is actually basic T/O stuff.

It is a matter of agreement, if you bid more than 2C as a answer to the
T/O, but since the shape is 4333 and the longest suit is a minor, staying
low is a good strategy.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I am neutral with regard to the question T/O vs. 2C, but given that your
partner is inexperienced, a 2C overcall has the advantage of simpler follow up
sequences.

[Zelandakh]

I am with Mike, Roland and Rainer in wanting to overcall this 2♣ rather than doubling. In the actual auction, South has a huge hand after 3♣ and cannot pass. This is something that soemtimes takes a little time for beginners to grasp though. Competitive bidding is often difficult at the beginning.

As for the cue bids, I presume you and your partner play 4th suit forcing in uncontested auctions? A simple agreement that should not confuse your partner too much is to treat any cue bid in competition as functionally equivalent to fourth suit forcing. That is, it asks for partner to describe their hand with particular reference to stoppers and partial support. You can tweak it and add stuff like UCBs as and when partner feels ready and in the meantime you have a useful addition that does not take any extra learning.