
trouble with NT overbids
#1
Posted 2012-October-26, 11:58

#2
Posted 2012-October-26, 12:52
If your partner doesn't have appropriate shape for NT (e.g. void in diamonds as you feared), then he will have at least one 5-card suit (and you shouldn't have any singletons for your NT bid), so there is at least one 7-card (or better) fit.
He's already told you his longest suit, so with his next bid, he should probably place the contract (since you've given him a relatively complete description of your hand already) or, if strong enough to explore slam (14+ HCP), make appropriate forcing bids to initiate that exploration.
#3
Posted 2012-October-26, 14:41
nemojames3, on 2012-October-26, 11:58, said:
-For opening bids, stopper requirements went out the window maybe 45+ years ago. People figured out that opening a suit just mean insoluble distortions later, it's just way easier to ignore the stopper requirement, hope partner shows up with something in the unstopped suit later if you end up in 3nt, and you gain more from the accurate bidding than you lose from occasionally reaching 3nt off the first 5-6 tricks.
- I think you meant NT "rebids" for your title not "overbids". For rebids, there is perhaps more room for difference of opinion regarding stoppers in unbid suits. Having bid suits, you somewhat pinpoint your weakness and make the lead more likely.
If your hand were 3=4=2=4, with small doubleton diamond, same high cards, there would be *some* (not unanimous by any means, and some would be vehemently against the practice) expert support for reversing into 2H, in essence pretending the hand were 3=4=1=5. This caters getting to spade and club contracts which might be superior to 3nt, which are unreachable after a 2nt rebid. But with 3=3=3=4, this is too much of a distortion. With the third card, more of chance partner has 3 cds and diamonds split 4-3 (so even if they run the suit, 3nt not down yet), and it makes it less good for play in a suit. So you have no option other than 2nt.
#4
Posted 2012-October-26, 14:49
nemojames3, on 2012-October-26, 11:58, said:
More specifically, your problem is that what you have been told is completely wrong.
The main purpose of NT bids in uncontested auctions is to show two things: (1) balanced distribution and (2) a fairly narrow point range. Having a stopper in every suit is definitely not necessary. You would not bid NT nearly often enough if that was the case.
If the opponents have made a bid, then it is generally important to have a stopper in that suit, in order to bid NT. But when they are silent, as in the diagram, no.
-gwnn
#5
Posted 2012-October-26, 22:06
#6
Posted 2012-October-29, 06:25
To take your example for a moment, let us give Responder 6hcp and a diamond void. Now look at the actual Responder hand and try to distribute the 4 diamonds to other suits. It should soon become obvious that Responder must either have 5+ spades, for example 5404 shape, or will have a huge club fit (4306). In the former case they will bid a new suit and we can show our 3 card support; in the latter they can show the club support and we can show heart values which will steer us clear of 3NT. This highlights another important point - bidding NT does not prevent us from examining other strains should partner have a very unbalanced hand.
Finally, your actual choice of 2♠ is wrong both on shape and strength. The second choice after rebidding NT would be a false reverse into 2♥ since if partner has 4 hearts they also have 5 spades. Once partner responds you are looking for the best game on this hand and showing a minimum Opener can never be right. Anyway, I do not know who your teacher is but I would suggest that you ask them to teach you a more modern style or to switch to a teacher who can help you to bid properly. You are obviously keen and playing a great deal, a good thing. However, you should try to get out of bad habits such as requiring stoppers for a NT opening or rebid as quickly as possible so you can start to develop bidding judgement in auctions which match what you are likely to see when you get past the beginner stage.
#7
Posted 2012-October-29, 09:32
#8
Posted 2012-October-29, 09:42
#9
Posted 2012-December-14, 00:43
1) opponents have bid a suit
2) your side has bid 3 other suits
If you are going to bid 1NT, forget the above too.
#10
Posted 2012-December-14, 04:12
nemojames3, on 2012-October-29, 09:32, said:
This is actually a more general topic - you need to learn, what are your partnership agreements.
Playing on BBO with random guys, you have to play, what is considered as standard (hoping your random
partner, believes this is standard too), in the village, you have to learn the village standard.
Playing robots, you have to learn Robots standard.
The only solution for this / the only chance to escape from this, is to form a partnership.
It is no good, if you play "correct" bridge, but find no partners to play with, or have partners that
shout at you (which is never correct).
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#11
Posted 2012-December-14, 09:54
Welcome to the forums. We'll cover a bit more on NT bidding during our next session.
Mark