[nemojames3]

I was playing in a robot tournament and came across this bid which often happens and I don't understand. Most players went to 2NT as the image shows so I assume that must be correct. My problem is I have been told not to bid NT unless I have at least 1 stopper in every suit. In this case diamonds are weak so I didn't bid 2NT. It turned out that North was strong in diamonds but North might just as easily been void with only 6 points. Does that mean if you have enough points it is ok to bid NT without a stopper in every suit?

[iamdavej]

You don't really have any other rebid to make - 2NT here should show a balanced hand too strong to open 1NT but not strong enough to open 2NT. In other words, 1X opening with 1NT rebid should show 12 - 14 balanced, 1NT opening should show 15 - 17, 1X opening with 2NT rebid shows 18 - 19, 2NT opening shows 20-21, etc. Let's you get hand strength and shape clarified for your partner. Yes, your diamond suit is a bit ratty (and it would be nice if it were Qxx, but it isn't); any rebid other than 2NT says something about your hand that isn't true.

If your partner doesn't have appropriate shape for NT (e.g. void in diamonds as you feared), then he will have at least one 5-card suit (and you shouldn't have any singletons for your NT bid), so there is at least one 7-card (or better) fit.

He's already told you his longest suit, so with his next bid, he should probably place the contract (since you've given him a relatively complete description of your hand already) or, if strong enough to explore slam (14+ HCP), make appropriate forcing bids to initiate that exploration.

[Stephen Tu]

 nemojames3, on 2012-October-26, 11:58, said:

I was playing in a robot tournament and came across this bid which often happens and I don't understand. Most players went to 2NT as the image shows so I assume that must be correct. My problem is I have been told not to bid NT unless I have at least 1 stopper in every suit. In this case diamonds are weak so I didn't bid 2NT. It turned out that North was strong in diamonds but North might just as easily been void with only 6 points. Does that mean if you have enough points it is ok to bid NT without a stopper in every suit?

-For opening bids, stopper requirements went out the window maybe 45+ years ago. People figured out that opening a suit just mean insoluble distortions later, it's just way easier to ignore the stopper requirement, hope partner shows up with something in the unstopped suit later if you end up in 3nt, and you gain more from the accurate bidding than you lose from occasionally reaching 3nt off the first 5-6 tricks.

- I think you meant NT "rebids" for your title not "overbids". For rebids, there is perhaps more room for difference of opinion regarding stoppers in unbid suits. Having bid suits, you somewhat pinpoint your weakness and make the lead more likely.

If your hand were 3=4=2=4, with small doubleton diamond, same high cards, there would be *some* (not unanimous by any means, and some would be vehemently against the practice) expert support for reversing into 2H, in essence pretending the hand were 3=4=1=5. This caters getting to spade and club contracts which might be superior to 3nt, which are unreachable after a 2nt rebid. But with 3=3=3=4, this is too much of a distortion. With the third card, more of chance partner has 3 cds and diamonds split 4-3 (so even if they run the suit, 3nt not down yet), and it makes it less good for play in a suit. So you have no option other than 2nt.

[billw55]

 nemojames3, on 2012-October-26, 11:58, said:

My problem is I have been told not to bid NT unless I have at least 1 stopper in every suit.

More specifically, your problem is that what you have been told is completely wrong.

The main purpose of NT bids in uncontested auctions is to show two things: (1) balanced distribution and (2) a fairly narrow point range. Having a stopper in every suit is definitely not necessary. You would not bid NT nearly often enough if that was the case.

If the opponents have made a bid, then it is generally important to have a stopper in that suit, in order to bid NT. But when they are silent, as in the diagram, no.

[Antrax]

Another point to consider is that you're not being weird by bidding NT without consideration for stoppers, so if one suit is wide open, other people will have the same problem (same hands, same system) - so even when it's "wrong" (you go down), often the result will be okay.

[Zelandakh]

One of the fundamentals of most modern bidding systems is that hand type is more important than side considerations such as stoppers. You have a balanced hand so you either open 1NT or rebid NT unless partner responds in your major. Requiring a stopper in every suit is just something that is not done anymore. Indeed, when 2 balanced hands are together, NT is often the best contract even without a stopper; for example, the suit might break 4-4 with 9 tricks available in the other 3 suits.

To take your example for a moment, let us give Responder 6hcp and a diamond void. Now look at the actual Responder hand and try to distribute the 4 diamonds to other suits. It should soon become obvious that Responder must either have 5+ spades, for example 5404 shape, or will have a huge club fit (4306). In the former case they will bid a new suit and we can show our 3 card support; in the latter they can show the club support and we can show heart values which will steer us clear of 3NT. This highlights another important point - bidding NT does not prevent us from examining other strains should partner have a very unbalanced hand.

Finally, your actual choice of 2♠ is wrong both on shape and strength. The second choice after rebidding NT would be a false reverse into 2♥ since if partner has 4 hearts they also have 5 spades. Once partner responds you are looking for the best game on this hand and showing a minimum Opener can never be right. Anyway, I do not know who your teacher is but I would suggest that you ask them to teach you a more modern style or to switch to a teacher who can help you to bid properly. You are obviously keen and playing a great deal, a good thing. However, you should try to get out of bad habits such as requiring stoppers for a NT opening or rebid as quickly as possible so you can start to develop bidding judgement in auctions which match what you are likely to see when you get past the beginner stage.

[nemojames3]

thanks for all the advice. The problem I have is I am learning in a small village where I am often shouted at (literally) for doing things that I know are right according to what I read and have learnt at BBO. The stoppers thing is set in stone here so I assume they play an older style which has been passed down. yes I am very keen and guess I will just have to keep learning here until I get good enough results where they might accept any change to the system. Since posting this I have started to bid more NT without stoppers (on BBO) and have been surprised at the results although I notice you have to be careful about when to cash in high cards. I notice sometimes I try and establish suits too early and the whole thing runs away from me.

[aguahombre]

If you really catch the "Bridge Bug", you might end up choosing between Bridge and the village.

[Charlie Yu]

General bridge logic: Forget about stoppers unless
1) opponents have bid a suit
2) your side has bid 3 other suits

If you are going to bid 1NT, forget the above too.

[P_Marlowe]

 nemojames3, on 2012-October-29, 09:32, said:

thanks for all the advice. The problem I have is I am learning in a small village where I am often shouted at (literally) for doing things that I know are right according to what I read and have learnt at BBO. The stoppers thing is set in stone here so I assume they play an older style which has been passed down. yes I am very keen and guess I will just have to keep learning here until I get good enough results where they might accept any change to the system. Since posting this I have started to bid more NT without stoppers (on BBO) and have been surprised at the results although I notice you have to be careful about when to cash in high cards. I notice sometimes I try and establish suits too early and the whole thing runs away from me.

This is actually a more general topic - you need to learn, what are your partnership agreements.

Playing on BBO with random guys, you have to play, what is considered as standard (hoping your random
partner, believes this is standard too), in the village, you have to learn the village standard.
Playing robots, you have to learn Robots standard.

The only solution for this / the only chance to escape from this, is to form a partnership.

It is no good, if you play "correct" bridge, but find no partners to play with, or have partners that
shout at you (which is never correct).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mr1303]

Hi Derek

Welcome to the forums. We'll cover a bit more on NT bidding during our next session.

Mark