[rduran1216]

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matchpoints.

[mike777]

blame north just rebid 3nt wtp?

I dont get 3s?

[aguahombre]

I don't understand the bidding enough to decide blame. South has a game invite opposite an opening bid; if 2NT was Game, it was an overbid. North has a jammed up 18 with chunky short reds (ripe for downgrading).

We have a combined semi-balanced 30, and are missing two Key cards if clubs are trump.

[Cyberyeti]

Play either inverted minors or kickback/redwood and you have no problems with this hand, but the key is what 2N showed. If S is max for this, N is over optimistic, if it was a GF, then S overbid.

[dkham]

If you play RKCB 1430 North can bid 4NT instead of jumping to 6♣:

South replies 5♣ - 1/4 keycards, must be 1 so North passes and plays 5♣
South replies 5♦ - 0/3 keycards, must be 3 keycards for South's bidding so far (he's shown ace of hearts already), so North bids 6♣
South replies 5♥ - 2 keycards no queen, North bids 6♣

[bluecalm]

If 2NT was an invite then 3S is overbid, just bid 3NT.
If 2NT was forcing then 3S is again not very good. We have a lot of cards in diamonds and hearts and our hand is NT'ish. I would bid 4NT and play there. Havaing bid 3S we overbid again by bidding 6C. We have minimum hand with bad localization, we should just bid 4S cuebid and wait for partner to decide. He still have a chance to bid 5C with minimum.

Quote

kickback/redwood

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RKCB

Before you play any ace asking bid, including RKCB it's good idea to learn about hand valuation. You ask for aces to see if there are any aces missing if slam values are there, it won't solve your problems if you are unable to establish those in the first place.

[dave_w]

Did bidding 6♣ even cost anything? If 3NT was scoring more than 9 (most of the time I'd say) - then the decision to bid on to 5♣ was bad. If 2NT was invite then bid 3NT. If 2NT was forcing then either (a) bid 4NT or (b) bid 3S then 4NT or © bid 3S and pass 3NT. I guess that means most of the blame is North's.

Also: this is boring.

How can anyone think South was to blame for this?

Damn I wish this was usenet and I could create a kill file.

[Fluffy]

if you play 2NT invitational you don't need blackwod, you need 5 fingers in one hand, ♠K ♥A ♦K ♣AK = 5 bullets, partner cannot hold more than 3, period.


EDIT: Oh lol, I forgot to mention we miss ♣J as well!.

[phil_20686]

It looks like south made a balanced invite, which is an underbid, but a reasonable one.

North's three spade bid is basically hopeless. South denied 4S so the on reason to bid 3S is to get partner focused on holding black suit cards for slam. Slam just looks hoplessly far away with the north hand, he has an auto 3N bid over an invitational 2N.

If 2N was some kind of forcing with a balanced hand, then south should bid 3N over 3S anyway, as north could just have some 15 count looking for extras.

[ArtK78]

I have to echo the sentiments set forth above.

North has a 3NT bid. Anything else is very wishful thinking.

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2012-May-23, 07:24, said:

if you play 2NT invitational you don't need blackwod, you need 5 fingers in one hand, ♠K ♥A ♦K ♣AK = 5 bullets, partner cannot hold more than 3, period.


EDIT: Oh lol, I forgot to mention we miss ♣J as well!.

Don't understand your counting, Kxx, Axx, xxx, KJxx is an excellent slam, but there aren't many hands that are, and a lot more that aren't.

[sathyab]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-23, 09:22, said:

Don't understand your counting, Kxx, Axx, xxx, KJxx is an excellent slam, but there aren't many hands that are, and a lot more that aren't.

2nt doesn't look right with Kxx Axx xxx KJxx. You could miss a slam, but more importantly could be wrong-siding 3nt. I'd try an inverted 2♣.

[jogs]

rduran1216, on 2012-May-23, 00:27, said:

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matchpoints.

What's wrong with 1♦? Is South a handhog?

[ArtK78]

jogs, on 2012-May-23, 14:49, said:

What's wrong with 1♦? Is South a handhog?

A better question is what is wrong with 2NT? 4-4-3-2, no major suit, protection for the KJ of spades and the ♦K, correct point count. If you won't bid 2NT on this hand, when will you bid 2NT?

[aguahombre]

jogs, on 2012-May-23, 14:49, said:

What's wrong with 1♦? Is South a handhog?

In what partnership? If you had read any of the responses, above, you might notice there is a difference of opinion about the nature of 1C-2N. Some are o.k. with it being an invite, and others believe it is a g.f. I don't think anyone knows how South intended it.

Then there is a slight disagreement about whether the given hand is an invite or a game force. If you believe 2NT should be game force, AND this hand is not one, then your 1D response is appropriate; we happen to be in that camp and would bid 1D. That doesn't make 1D correct for other pairs, and certainly doesn't make anyone a handhog.

[SteveMoe]

As others, 3N not 3♠. Once control bidding starts jumping to 6♣ is irresponsible. 4♠ will precipitate 5♣ (poor trumps partner) and we are (Safe) in a poorer scoring game. That's the risk of overvaluing the North hand.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

The hand illustrates how the absence of using RKC lands you in a contract which is OFF 2 cards -- namely the A and K of trumps. North took a shot at 6C after 4-level cue-bids, because he probably knew 4NT as RKC would push them above 5C anyway ( if RKC = 03 14 ). Better if his 4D! were kickback-RKC .

[jdeegan]

North screwed things up. He needs to make a mild to moderate slam try with 4NT and leave the decision to partner. Partner will value ♣ cards properly.

[lowerline]

rduran1216, on 2012-May-23, 00:27, said:

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matchpoints.

If 2nt is invitational, North should have ended the bidding with 3nt.
The bidding only makes sense if 2nt is game-forcing. If you play 1430 RKB, North could have checked keycards.
South is blameless.

Steven

[TWO4BRIDGE]

lowerline, on 2012-May-25, 04:08, said:

If 2nt is invitational, North should have ended the bidding with 3nt.
The bidding only makes sense if 2nt is game-forcing. If you play 1430 RKB , North could have checked keycards.
South is blameless.

Steven

This hand could be the "poster child" for 1430 .