[kenrexford]

Judgment question.



Opener: ♠-- ♥QJxx ♦Axx ♣Axxxxx

Responder: ♠xxxxx ♥AKxxx ♦Kx ♣x


Our auction was:


1♣-1♠

2♣-3♥

4♦-4♥

Pass

[Hanoi5]

North should give it another try in my opinion.

[ggwhiz]

Hanoi5, on 2012-March-08, 22:16, said:

North should give it another try in my opinion.

I agree. 4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit (5♥?) and the 5 level should be safe.

[mike777]

geez you guys are tough...I just think bidding slam on this one is really tough....next hand.

[r_prah]

ggwhiz, on 2012-March-08, 22:42, said:

I agree. 4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit (5♥?) and the 5 level should be safe.

I agree as well.

[gnasher]

I'm surprised that people think 4♦ isn't agreeing hearts. What else can it mean?

As for the idea that North should move again over 4♥, partner might not be pleased to find himself in 5♥ or 6♥ opposite Kxxxx AKxxx xx x or AJ10xx Kxxxx x Qx. North has a minimum, a void in his partner's first suit, and an empty suit of his own. He has shown heart support and some suitability with 4♦, and a spade shortage will be no great surprise to opener. North may not have shown everything he's got, but he's certainly not worth the five-level.

These hands fit miraculously, with five low opposite a void and Axxxxx opposite a singleton, and slam is still under 60%.

[han]

Agree with Gnasher.

[mikeh]

I was scrolling through the posts, and read with astonishment that two earlier posters thought 4♦ wasn't clearly a cue bid for hearts....wtf else do they think it means? An attempt to play in diamonds opposite partner's 5-5 or better in the majors? A try for 3N?

Then sanity was restored via Andy's post....including the point that this is a magic hand.....what are the odds, on this auction, that S has zero hcp in spades?

And N has already made a slam try via 4♦ so how can he make another move?

[Phil]

Over NF 3♥, I do not see why 4♦ must be a great hand for hearts. Why couldn't I hold QJx x Kxx AKJTxx? If this is a 2♠ call for you, then tweak it as necessary, but surely there exists some hand with 3=6 or even 3=7 that rebids 2♣.

If 4♦ really does agree hearts, then both partners could do more. No real charge, although slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.

[kenrexford]

Phil, on 2012-March-09, 10:17, said:

Over NF 3♥, I do not see why 4♦ must be a great hand for hearts. Why couldn't I hold QJx x Kxx AKJTxx? If this is a 2♠ call for you, then tweak it as necessary, but surely there exists some hand with 3=6 or even 3=7 that rebids 2♣.

If 4♦ really does agree hearts, then both partners could do more. No real charge, although slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.

That's a very tight target. You have to have a hand where you have a 3-fit for spades, no upgrade to justify a 3♣ jump, but cause to think slam might be there opposite a non-forcing hand.

[Phil]

kenrexford, on 2012-March-09, 10:36, said:

That's a very tight target. You have to have a hand where you have a 3-fit for spades, no upgrade to justify a 3♣ jump, but cause to think slam might be there opposite a non-forcing hand.

Yes I know. It has to be a hand that doesn't raise spades and doesn't bid 4♠ over 3♥. I have a lot of doubts with the approach, and I am convinced 4♦ should agree hearts, but I've never discussed it with my partners.

[bluecalm]

Quote

4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit

What is "advance cue" ?
It's either cue (thus agreeing hearts) or it's not a cue. Natural doesn't make sense though so what else could that be ?

What was 3H btw ? GF or invite ?

[lalldonn]

I don't believe you Ken, did you really miss a slam with an 11 count opener opposite an invitation?

But since you mention you play 3♥ as non-forcing, partner made a slam try over it and you had AK of trumps and a K. Therefore, I believe you should do something. Whichever of 5♣ or 5♦ or 5♥ you like should get the job done since they all bypassed the chance to cuebid spades opposite the void.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

gnasher, on 2012-March-09, 05:59, said:

..... slam is still under 60%.

Phil, on 2012-March-09, 10:17, said:

.....slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.

Looks like ~ 35% to me .
Where do 12 tricks come from ? It looks like ♣ need to split 3-3 for the x-ruff to work.

[Charlie Yu]

I would stop here as North. Too much chance of wasted spade values and 5♥ wasn't good.

[gnasher]

Phil, on 2012-March-09, 10:17, said:

slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.

How are you going to play it on a diamond lead?

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-March-09, 11:33, said:

Looks like ~ 35% to me .
Where do 12 tricks come from ? It looks like ♣ need to split 3-3 for the x-ruff to work.

You can get to over 50% by playing for either clubs 3-3 or (clubs 4-2 and trumps 2-2).

I haven't thought about the play in detail, but if you can arrange to get two spade ruffs and set the clubs up whenever trumps are 3-1 and clubs are 4-2/3-3, that's much more than 60%.

[Phil]

gnasher, on 2012-March-09, 12:09, said:

How are you going to play it on a diamond lead?

Perhaps a better question is how do I go down on a diamond lead?

[kenrexford]

lalldonn, on 2012-March-09, 11:29, said:

I don't believe you Ken, did you really miss a slam with an 11 count opener opposite an invitation?

But since you mention you play 3♥ as non-forcing, partner made a slam try over it and you had AK of trumps and a K. Therefore, I believe you should do something. Whichever of 5♣ or 5♦ or 5♥ you like should get the job done since they all bypassed the chance to cuebid spades opposite the void.

.
I was opener and thus bid the 4D cue-raise of hearts. This was an occasional partner, where i was not sure of the strength for his hand. The question was more theoretical, as at the table my partner did not know what 4D meant.

[gnasher]

Phil, on 2012-March-09, 12:20, said:

Perhaps a better question is how do I go down on a diamond lead?

How would I know? If I don't know what line you're going to play, I can't be expected to guess how you will go down.

[nigel_k]

I think 3-1 hearts is not a problem even if clubs are 4-2. Let's say West has a doubleton club and three trumps. Win the king of diamonds, clubs to the ace, club ruff, diamond to the ace, club ruff and West overruffs.

Now whatever West does I have the entries to ruff both a diamond and a club high and still return to draw West's last trump.

Should be ok unless clubs are 5-1, trumps 4-0, or LHO passed throughout with a doubleton club and stiff trump.