[jillybean]

---

[S2000magic]

2♦. You want to hear where partner's high cards are for notrump.

[masse24]

Absolutely

[neilkaz]

Yes 2♦ for me as well.

[quiddity]

I usually just bid 2NT (balanced invite) with this sort of hand. Maybe I'm biased by the fact that I hate my inverted minor follow-ups.

[mike777]

quiddity, on 2012-February-24, 18:53, said:

I usually just bid 2NT (balanced invite) with this sort of hand. Maybe I'm biased by the fact that I hate my inverted minor follow-ups.

ditto

[Flem72]

mike777, on 2012-February-24, 18:55, said:

ditto

Well, what the heck are they?

I have always hated 'stops up the line' b/c it advertises the lead and occupies the 2M calls with a concentration kind of call, rather than a shape kind of call. I've always been a WNTer, and after studying "Washington Standard" to better accomodate my (overwhelmingly) SNT partners, was happy to see that those guys, who seem to uncdrstand SNT about as well as anyone, advocated 'hand type' responses: Just bid 2N with the balanced min, and 3m with the unbalanced min. Now, 2M is forward-going and shape showing.
Mo' bettuh.

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[TWO4BRIDGE]

quiddity, on 2012-February-24, 18:53, said:

I usually just bid 2NT (balanced invite) with this sort of hand. Maybe I'm biased by the fact that I hate my inverted minor follow-ups.

You may recall, it was a thread regarding Inverted Minors where Ken Rexford made this priceless comment:
"Stoppers are for losers" .... ( In other words, if the point count is there, just bid [some level of] NT ).

[aguahombre]

We like our inverted minor follow-ups; but Quiddity's invitational 2NT still seems about right. We try to avoid the inverted 2m on 4-card support, anyway. This one is really notrumpish. Second choice would be a serious downgrade 1NT, but that seems a bit too pessimistic.

[Cyberyeti]

Inverted minor for me, we use 2N as a 5-8 5 card raise (of a min 4 card diamond) so that's not available to us.

[Codo]

I use 2 NT as 11-12 balanced. Bridge can be easy if you have a hand that fits to your system. Second choice would be a very light 3 Nt, an inverted minors 2 ♦ is reserved for non NT hands or for hands which are too strong to bid them directly.

[jillybean]

---

We wrong sided the 3N contract and got the killer heart lead. In my ideal world, 2♦ does not deny a 4cM so North bids 2♠/2♦
and South gets the contract.

[mike777]

did isay i bid 2nt? yes


at times it wins...lets not forget that....at times..

[Cthulhu D]

Results merchanting a bit, but playing better minor 2NT is better, but!

Playing a short club would any of you swing in favour of 2D? If partner rates to have 5 diamonds, IMHO the inverted minor raise looks a lot better. (for me this auction goes 1C-2NT, 3NT and we luck out, but that's just random system swings, if one of the small spades a diamond I'd bid 2D and then we'd go off).

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2012-February-26, 23:22, said:

---

We wrong sided the 3N contract and got the killer heart lead. In my ideal world, 2♦ does not deny a 4cM so North bids 2♠/2♦
and South gets the contract.

As far as I understand, 3NT showes stopper in both majors, and as far as I can make it out
North has no stopper in heart.
This does not mean, 3NT is bad, but that 2D was not the bid, that made 100% sure, that you
played NT from North.

Regarding 2NT vs 2D, both bids are ok, if you regular open light, 2D is clear cut.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

Our 2♦ doesn't deny 4M, so we'd bid 1♦-2♦-2♠-3N except that we play a weak NT so move a card across to get that auction, we'd wrongside it 1N-3N.

That said this is blatant results merchanting, reverse the heart holdings and see which side wrongsides it, small to the ace and J back pinning the 10. While somebody might find the J from AJx, they'll find it much more often in a problem than at the table.

[Codo]

I never understood the idea to put 4 card majors in your inverted minor raise. You overload a loaded bid and what exactly is the advantage?

Anyway, 3 NT was a blast. This is in any given system a 2 ♠ bid to show the stopper and the weakness in hearts.

[jillybean]

Codo, on 2012-February-27, 07:49, said:

I never understood the idea to put 4 card majors in your inverted minor raise. You overload a loaded bid and what exactly is the advantage?

Anyway, 3 NT was a blast. This is in any given system a 2 ♠ bid to show the stopper and the weakness in hearts.

I think slam bidding is simpler after 1m 2m* 2M and responder discovers a double fit. If the bidding starts 1m 1M 2M it is difficult to show the minor fit which could be the better slam.

[ArtK78]

I would bid 2NT. I have a balanced 12 count. 2NT shows a balanced 11-12 count.

Besides, I play that an inverted minor suit raise is game forcing, and that a jump shift in the other minor is an invitational raise in the minor suit. Furthermore, a minor suit raise shows 5 unless you just cannot come up with a better call (i.e., x AJx KQJx xxxxx would be an invitational raise of a 1♦ opening bid). So the option of a 2♦ bid on these cards is not available to me.

[Cyberyeti]

Codo, on 2012-February-27, 07:49, said:

I never understood the idea to put 4 card majors in your inverted minor raise. You overload a loaded bid and what exactly is the advantage?

Anyway, 3 NT was a blast. This is in any given system a 2 ♠ bid to show the stopper and the weakness in hearts.

The advantage mainly plays out in the context of weak no trump 4 card major 4 card minor type systems I think. We play our inverted minors only F3m btw.

It means that there are very few decent hands with 4 card support for partner's minor that you don't raise immediately, giving big inferences in the later auction where you show exactly 3 card support. I think the only hand for us where we don't raise immediately is one with 5M/4m and either 10-11 points or failing to meet the suit requirements for 1m-2M which are Qxxx or better in the minor and 2 of the top 3, 3 of the top 5 in the major.

It also helps to play 1♣-2♣-2♦ as an enquiry if you do this.