misheard call of card
#1
Posted 2012-February-06, 18:32
East sits over these with ♦Q-7
Declarer leads a diamond and calls for ♦K.
It's noisy (end of round) and East is a bit deaf. He (claims he) didn't hear.
Anyway, dummy pushes ♦J aside and correctly places ♦K next to her played cards.
For whatever reason, East sees ♦J and plays ♦Q.
Your ruling?
#2
Posted 2012-February-06, 18:38
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#3
Posted 2012-February-06, 19:01
#4
Posted 2012-February-06, 22:51
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#5
Posted 2012-February-06, 23:09
blackshoe, on 2012-February-06, 22:51, said:
so did i, in particular the part about pushing the J♦ aside. with only 2 cards in dummy, and perforce a yawning gap over most of the table, depending on the direction ('aside' being rather vague) and the magnitude of the movement it would be relatively easy for one to interpret the card being 'pushed aside' as having being played.
#6
Posted 2012-February-06, 23:13
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#7
Posted 2012-February-06, 23:19
blackshoe, on 2012-February-06, 23:13, said:
So provided 4th hand did not watch dummy's precise movements, he can easily be confused as to which card is actually played.
#8
Posted 2012-February-07, 10:20
If a player mishears the call, does not watch dummy's actions, sees two cards and picks the wrong one as played, what do you suggest? That we call his mother to come and dry his tears?
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#9
Posted 2012-February-07, 11:51
Law 45 B. Play of Card from Dummy said:
But dummy didn't pick up ♦K, dummy instead initially "picked up" ♦J (dummies often do not physically lift the card being played). So we might then look at
Law 45 D. Card Misplayed by Dummy said:
"The played position" does not appear to be defined.
This seems to give the TD sufficient leeway to make a sensible, pragmatic decision in the light of the actual circumstances at the table, which inevitably can not be characterised fully in the OP but which the TD is in the best position to ascertain if (s)he is called at the time. If (s)he determines that these Laws are not appropriate then, yes, Law 47F2 would apply.
#10
Posted 2012-February-07, 12:28
#11
Posted 2012-February-07, 12:38
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#12
Posted 2012-February-07, 12:49
blackshoe, on 2012-February-07, 12:38, said:
really? with only 2 cards on the table i would find it surprising that dummy needed to dig for the king at all. and 'pushed aside' sounds like a relatively big movement in terms of what's normally required to expose enough of the desired card to remove it, even in a full, compressed dummy. it sounds to me like this dummy has a fairly idiosyncratic way of handling the cards or understandably gets a little careless towards the end of the hand - urgent appointment at the bar?
obviously peteralan has the truth of it that the director would have been in a good position to investigate at the time quite how the J♦ was moved.
#13
Posted 2012-February-07, 12:52
#14
Posted 2012-February-07, 17:35
barmar, on 2012-February-07, 12:52, said:
In view of the wording of Law 45B he has some justification for so assuming. It sounds like you're bringing pre-conceptions to bear: where's the evidence for "He eagerly expected declarer to finesse"? This is just my point - we should approach these cases with as open a mind as possible, and start by establishing exactly what happened (and which Laws are then in point).
#15
Posted 2012-February-07, 17:56
PeterAlan, on 2012-February-07, 17:35, said:
The most useful post in this thread so far, imo. Shevek, you have anything to add to your original post?
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#16
Posted 2012-February-07, 22:43
blackshoe, on 2012-February-07, 17:56, said:
Not much.
East is not a top player but he is related to one. He's a cousin of George Rapee.
As you might surmise, he is not a young man.
I ruled no more tricks to EW, which bemused them. Later overheard to complain mildly about a bad ruling.
Perhaps it was. By the time I arrived at the table, the evidence had moved. It's possible that dummy's fingers edged towards ♦J, expecting a finesse. I surmise that she pushed ♦J slightly to her left before picking up ♦K and placing to her right. NS maintain they did nothing unusual.
#17
Posted 2012-February-08, 10:44
shevek, on 2012-February-07, 22:43, said:
East is not a top player but he is related to one. He's a cousin of George Rapee.
As you might surmise, he is not a young man.
I ruled no more tricks to EW, which bemused them. Later overheard to complain mildly about a bad ruling.
Perhaps it was. By the time I arrived at the table, the evidence had moved. It's possible that dummy's fingers edged towards ♦J, expecting a finesse. I surmise that she pushed ♦J slightly to her left before picking up ♦K and placing to her right. NS maintain they did nothing unusual.
So dummy did move both cards? I would award the trick to the opposition and be thinking about a PP for the Alcatraz Coup.
#18
Posted 2012-February-08, 11:50
BTW, this thread got me watching last night how I act as dummy. I don't generally "pick up" the card, I usually just slide it out of the stack. In my case the "played position" is near the edge of the table, between myself and the rest of dummy's faced cards, and adjacent to dummy's quitted tricks (quitting the trick usually just involves turning it over and pointing it in the correct direction, it's already approximately where it needs to be). I think this was the most common style, although a few players push dummy's card towards the middle of the table rather than towards themselves.
#19
Posted 2012-February-08, 12:57
Unfortunately, it *looks*, at least until the motion is done, like the card "moved from dummy" is the played card, because it's the one that's in a different place from before (frequently a full card's different place).
That, combined with not hearing the call, could very easily be interpreted as the low card played.
I also note that while I don't do it often, I remember doing it more than once. I shall endeavour to break that habit.
#20
Posted 2012-February-08, 13:42
mycroft, on 2012-February-08, 12:57, said:
Unfortunately, it *looks*, at least until the motion is done, like the card "moved from dummy" is the played card, because it's the one that's in a different place from before (frequently a full card's different place).
That, combined with not hearing the call, could very easily be interpreted as the low card played.
I also note that while I don't do it often, I remember doing it more than once. I shall endeavour to break that habit.
And if you noticed having done that at the table, I am equally sure you would have conceded that each side gets one of the last two tricks.