[bbochev]

1.) Would someone tell me what color (Green, Red, Blue, Yellow) following system is to be classified?
2.) Should be this system allowed and in what type of competition (and if Yes, pair using system what approach should follows - pre-alert etc.)

System openings:

Balanced hands 12+ are opened by 1♣ - 12+ Milton Work, no upper limit, max. 1 doubleton, Any 5332 is OK
Evaluation of unbalanced hands is in Tricks points (TP) - A=1.5, K=1, Q=.5 TP and up to 2.5 TP for distribution - (Longest-Shortest suit)/2.
All openings from 1♦ to 2♥ are unbalanced, min. 5 TP no upper limit. (If strength is bellow 10 HPC, hand has controls and very unbalanced distribution - i.e. Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx is minimum, in my opinion better than "average hand" - 10 HPC without distributional strength)
1♦♥♠ = always 4+ in the suit and one of three types: 1.) 6+ onesuiter 2.) twosuiter with lower suit 3.) Threesuiter with neighbor suits;
1NT is same as above for ♣suit

2♣ - 4♠-5+♦ OR 4♥-5+♣
2♦ - 5+♥-4+♣
2♥ - 5+♠-4+♦

2 and 3♠ - preempt 5+-5+ minors

2NT3♣♦♥ - next suit (transfer) -> preempt -2/-3 OR 7+ AKQ

Here is UFO pre-alert card


I apologize if this topic misfit forum...

[paulg]

bbochev, on 2012-January-24, 03:25, said:

1.) Would someone tell me what color (Green, Red, Blue, Yellow) following system is to be classified?

I believe that the WBF and EBL would classify this as a Red system (WBF System Policy). Other regulating authorities may vary.

I believe the 2♣ opening bid is a Brown Sticker Convention (BSCs) as there is no guaranteed suit and the hand may be less than average HCP values.

bbochev, on 2012-January-24, 03:25, said:

2.) Should be this system allowed and in what type of competition (and if Yes, pair using system what approach should follows - pre-alert etc.)

This depends on the Regulating Authority. The full system would be permitted by the EBL in the European Team Championships but probably not in many other events solely because of the Brown Sticker 2♣ opener. The EBL would not permit it in the European Open Championships and the WBF does not permit BSCs in the open events (Rosenblum) or the round-robin of restricted events (Bermuda Bowl).

You can play BSCs in Scotland in our two premier team events but no others.

[bbochev]

The point is definition of "average strength/hand". I'm in doubt whether Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx is weaker to Axxx, xxx, Kxx, Kxx. In fact in WBF SYSTEMS POLICY I found definition of "Average hand" - a hand containing 10 high card points (Milton Work) with no distributional values, weak - a high card strength below average hand (what about "distributional" values ?).

For example:
Axxxx, xx, Kxxx, Kx (10 HPC) = 3.5 TP (A+2Ks) + 1.5 TP ((5-2)/2) = 5 TP - minimum for openning
KQxx, Qx, Qxxxx, Qx (11 HPC) = 3 TP (K+3Q) + 1.5 TP ((5-2)/2) = 4.5 not enough

Question is whether:
Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx (5 TP, 1spade opening)
or
Axxx, x, Kxxxxx, xx (5 TP, 2 Clubs opening)
are weak hands (high card weaker than AVERAGE hand)?

If we look at 5 TP as a summ of honors TP and distributional tricks, we'd find, that if no additional distribution values ( 0 TP ) participated, 5 TP from honors are made from 2A+2Ks (14 HPC) to 4Q3Ks (17! HPC) far beyond average hand

PS. Hands depicted above represent lowest limit - and still too many controls plus distribution to be passed or opened as a week

paulg, on 2012-January-24, 05:25, said:

I believe that the WBF and EBL would classify this as a Red system (WBF System Policy). Other regulating authorities may vary.

I believe the 2♣ opening bid is a Brown Sticker Convention (BSCs) as there is no guaranteed suit and the hand may be less than average HCP values.


This depends on the Regulating Authority. The full system would be permitted by the EBL in the European Team Championships but probably not in many other events solely because of the Brown Sticker 2♣ opener. The EBL would not permit it in the European Open Championships and the WBF does not permit BSCs in the open events (Rosenblum) or the round-robin of restricted events (Bermuda Bowl).

You can play BSCs in Scotland in our two premier team events but no others.

[Siegmund]

He didnt say that 2C/D/H were weak; I took them to be normal-opening-bid strength. Is 2C still Brown Sticker even if it is not weak? (Setting aside his hand evaluation for the moment; say 2C=11-15 and pointed or round suits.)

[mgoetze]

Siegmund, on 2012-January-24, 10:01, said:

Is 2C still Brown Sticker even if it is not weak?

No. (Why didn't you just click the link?)

[paulg]

bbochev, on 2012-January-24, 07:21, said:

The point is definition of "average strength/hand". I'm in doubt whether Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx is weaker to Axxx, xxx, Kxx, Kxx.

A question that is often debated on the forums where we all have an opinion that we are happy to share but only the Regulating Authority (WBF or EBL) can actually answer. And, in practice, they never answer specifics and just say that their Systems Policy is clear (which, of course, it is not).

However, in this case, I believe you will not succeed if you claim that Axxx, x, Kxxxxx, xx is an average by their definition (or interpretation of their definition).

[bluejak]

An average hand contains 10 HCP. You may not like it, but under the WBF and EBL definitions that is the case.

[RMB1]

bluejak, on 2012-January-24, 11:12, said:

An average hand contains 10 HCP. ...

It does not follow that a better than average hand has 10 or more HCP

[bluejak]

Why not?

[bbochev]

'[ "Average hand" - a hand containing 10 high card points (Milton Work) with no distributional values ]''

[RMB1]

bluejak, on 2012-January-24, 12:52, said:

Why not?

Because although strength is correlated with HCP, there are fluctuations.

The average hand has one nine, does this mean that all above average hands have at least one nine.

[bluejak]

I know it is not a great definition 10 HCP with no allowance for distribution. But are you trying to tell me this is not what the WBF uses?

[mgoetze]

bbochev, on 2012-January-24, 07:21, said:

I found definition of "Average hand" - a hand containing 10 high card points (Milton Work) with no distributional values, weak - a high card strength below average hand (what about "distributional" values ?).

Well, if you had read the line after that you would also have found the definition of "weak", which is "high card strength below that of an average hand". So ♠AKQT98765432 ♥- ♦x ♣- is a "weak" hand according to the WBF systems policy. I do think this is pretty clear.

[Zelandakh]

It is easy to "fix" this system so that it does not contain a BS convention. For example:-

2♠ = preemptive with both minors or constructive 4♠5+♦ and <10 hcp (diamonds is an anchor suit)
...2NT relay, then 3♣ = minors and 3♦ = constructive
2NT = constructive 4♥5+♣ and <10 hcp
3♣♦♥♠ standard

As an aside, you would probably get some constructive feedback on the system in the Non-Natural Systems forum should you find that helpful. FWiiW I would strongly prefer to have a natural 2♠ bid available as well as 3♦, 3♥ and 3♠. If you are really keen on the idea of transfer preempts then I recommend looking up MisIry which uses them while also bundling in very strong 2-suited hands.

Note also that it is a good idea to give a regulating authority in questions of this type. What systems one is allowed to play in WBF events is different from what is possible in the ACBL. I have no idea about Bulgaria but most likely the regulations there are different again.