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Thrump doubles are an alternative to negative doubles which apply after partner's open is followed by a preempt of 3D, 3H, or 3S. The double denies a stopper and asks partner to bid 3N with a stopper. If opener doesn't have a stopper, he bids suits up the line. Since the thrump double is game forcing, opener's bid of 3M is forcing. I really like the idea because otherwise a lot of hands have no bid.

So I had wondered what 1C (3D) dbl P 3S P 3N ought to show. I emailed Bergen whether 3S should deny a positional holding (like Kxx of diamonds) but not say a non-positional holding (like Axx). So 3N there would indicate willingness to play 3N when partner holds the ace of their suit. Bergen didn't think this idea was crazy, but he 1) wants to keep things simple and 2) wants the preempting hand on lead. For sure, partner could have Qx or Jxx and now it's very important for opener to declare. One has to weigh that likelihood against the chance that one can find a 4-4 major suit fit.

Another concern I had was whether the thrump double should 100% deny a stopper. Let's say I'm responder and hold Axxx Kxxx A Qxxx. I don't want to bid 3N here. I can't hold up the ace for one. If I double, asking partner to tell me more about his hand, I'll be happy with any bid he cares to make. But what about Axxx Kxxx Ax Qxx or Axxx Kxxx Kx Qxx? These seem more like a judgment call. But Axxx Kxxx Axx Kx I think I have to 'fess up to having a stopper and bid 3N because I might not like to hear partner bid 4C.

Not endplaying partner seems to be a lot of what this is about. My partner and I argued over whether with KQx QJxxx KJx xx and the auction 1C (3D) the value bid was 3H or 3N. His practice was to negative double (we weren't playing thrump) with the Flannery pattern so that I could bid a nebulous 3S bid over his 3H which would let him complete his description of 3N. I understand that. But let's say we weren't playing that way and that 3H didn't deny four spades. Now he would really be risking a 4C bid by me and I think the value bid would clearly be 3N. With x QJxxx KJx Axxx he would have a better chance of hearing a 3S rebid from me and can stand a 4C bid; with that hand, there's more upside to bidding 3H.

Playing either negative doubles or thrump doubles, I think responder has to bid 3N with AJxx QJxxx KJx x because this hand can't stand a club rebid.

So I probably sound like I think I have it all worked out, but interested in other people's take.