[Coelacanth]

ACBL Club Game

Between rounds I was approached by a player who reported an untoward comment by an opponent. Like many players, this person (the one who approached me) is in the habit of placing his bidding cards somewhat haphazardly. The opponent suggested that such placement could be used to signal partner.

I promised to have a quiet word with the accusing oppenent after the game, but unfortunately she left the playing site before I could do so. At this point I don't know the exact nature of her comment; it could be anything from

"you really should get in the habit of placing your cards neatly. If you don't, some future opponent might accuse you of communicating with your partner by means of the placement of the cards"

to

"you are obviously cheating by communicating the contents of your hand to partner by the way you place the bid cards".

I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

I'm looking for general advice on how to handle such situations. Let's say that rather than approaching me privately, the "accused" player had called me to the table during the auction. (I put "accused" in inverted commas because, having known this player for over 20 years, I am 100% confident that such a scheme would never occur to him.)

I imagine a conversation proceeding along the lines of:

Accused: she has accused me of signaling my partner by how I place my bid cards
Me: is this true?
Accusor: I just said this is a possibility given the fact that he places them differently every time
Me: do you have any reason to suspect anything 'fishy' on this particular auction? That is, has his partner taken some unusual and successful action?
Accusor: well, no, but on the previous board they reached a very pushy slam which was absolutely cold
Me: ok, please carry on with the hand. If something like this happens in the future, please involve the director first.

So, as I said, some general advice please. Is the accusing player due a PP, a stern talking-to, or a friendly talking-to? Should I be suggesting to the accused player that he place his bid cards more tidily? (I can find nothing in ACBL Bidding Box Regulations which addresses this) Should I be talking to our District Recorder? Any other thoughts?

Thanks

[hrothgar]

What about something like the following:

I've received some comments regarding the placement of your bidding cards.
It was suggested that someone might use this type of system as a method to make illegal signals.

FWIW, I don't think that you're engaged in anything untoward...
Even so, I've been asked to look into this...

Is there any chance that you could do me a big favor and try to be more consistent in the way that you place your bidding cards?
It would save us all a bunch of time and hassle...

[aguahombre]

 hrothgar, on 2011-August-15, 10:21, said:

What about something like the following:

I've received some comments regarding the placement of your bidding cards.
It was suggested that someone might use this type of system as a method to make illegal signals.

FWIW, I don't think that you're engaged in anything untoward...
Even so, I've been asked to look into this...

Is there any chance that you could do me a big favor and try to be more consistent in the way that you place your bidding cards?
It would save us all a bunch of time and hassle...

Nicely worded, but the sloppy person is not the person we are asked to deal with in the OP.

[Bbradley62]

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

Is the accusing player due a PP, a stern talking-to, or a friendly talking-to?

How can anyone possibly know this, when you don't seem to have a good idea of what she actually said? She could be due any of the above, or maybe even a "thank you".

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

Should I be suggesting to the accused player that he place his bid cards more tidily?

Yes, although the time to do that would have been in direct response to his original complaint.

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

Should I be talking to our District Recorder?

Why should a third-party do this? If either of the two players feels strongly enough about what happened, you should provide him/her a recorder form to complete/file.

[Phil]

Some players put their bidding cards way to the left when they anticipate a long auction. There's nothing nefarious here, but its careless.

As a practical matter, anything that involves an out-and-out cheating accusation should be handled away from the table - both the allegation, and the discussion with the perp.

If I were called to the table, I might give a ZT to the accuser - I think it depends on the tone.

[blackshoe]

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

I promised to have a quiet word with the accusing oppenent after the game, but unfortunately she left the playing site before I could do so.

I would have gone to this player immediately, told her there was something about which I needed to talk with her after the game, and asked her to please not leave until we'd talked. If she says she has to leave right away, I'd say "We need to talk now, then," and take her away from the table and get on with it.

You have a statement from one party; you need to get one from the other. Ask her what she said (her exact words).

In general, I advise players not to make extraneous comments at the table. If they have a problem with something an opponent has done (or not done), the right thing to do is to call the TD. The last thing you want is two players getting into an argument over something like this.

The question for you now is should you call this person on the phone to discuss it, wait until the next game (or the next one to which she shows up) or forget about it? I don't like either the first or the last option at all. I don't like the second option much, either, but it seems to be the only one left.

[mrdct]

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

Should I be suggesting to the accused player that he place his bid cards more tidily? (I can find nothing in ACBL Bidding Box Regulations which addresses this)

I found that a little bit hard to believe, but upon looking-up and reading the ACBL Bidding Box Regulations, it does seem that the ACBL are completely silent about the correct procedure for placing one's bidding cards on the table.

I would suggest though that given that the ACBL regs are silent as to the mechanics of placing one's bids on the table, it wouldn't be unreasonable to follow what the WBF General Conditions of Contest say about bidding boxes, "Starting with the dealer, players place the bidding cards on the table in front of them, from the left and neatly overlapping so that all calls are visible and faced towards partner ..."

As an unrelated aside, the WBF General Conditions of Contest appear to have been recently updated without much fanfare. Is anyone aware of anything interesting or contentious in the new version?

[ggwhiz]

I vote for a rather stern word to the accuser asap that they MUST call the Director rather than make such a statement regardless of what it was or in what tone.

If they don't heed that warning, next time I would land on them hard.

[Rossoneri]

 ggwhiz, on 2011-August-15, 21:16, said:

I vote for a rather stern word to the accuser asap that they MUST call the Director rather than make such a statement regardless of what it was or in what tone.

If they don't heed that warning, next time I would land on them hard.

Ideally yes, but in a club game where there are playing directors there are usually practical limitations.

[aguahombre]

 ggwhiz, on 2011-August-15, 21:16, said:

I vote for a rather stern word to the accuser asap that they MUST call the Director rather than make such a statement regardless of what it was or in what tone.

If they don't heed that warning, next time I would land on them hard.

So true. There are many ways of suggesting to an opponent that he put the bid cards down in an orderly fashion, including a polite suggestion during down-time of better ways to get them out of the box and down onto the table facing one's partner.

Anyone beyond puberty would not mention UI or cheating when doing so.

[blackshoe]

 mrdct, on 2011-August-15, 19:26, said:

I found that a little bit hard to believe, but upon looking-up and reading the ACBL Bidding Box Regulations, it does seem that the ACBL are completely silent about the correct procedure for placing one's bidding cards on the table.

I would suggest though that given that the ACBL regs are silent as to the mechanics of placing one's bids on the table, it wouldn't be unreasonable to follow what the WBF General Conditions of Contest say about bidding boxes, "Starting with the dealer, players place the bidding cards on the table in front of them, from the left and neatly overlapping so that all calls are visible and faced towards partner ..."

As an unrelated aside, the WBF General Conditions of Contest appear to have been recently updated without much fanfare. Is anyone aware of anything interesting or contentious in the new version?

Given the ACBL's stance on its position vis-à-vis the laws in North America, I don't think it would be legal for an ACBL TD to apply WBF regulations.

[aguahombre]

I thought a club director could pretty much do what he/she wants, unless expressly prohibited. In this case applying a good guide where ACBL is silent.

That doesn't mean he could penalize someone for past action, but could establish the rule about bid card placement in his club.

[blackshoe]

In practice, club directors do in fact do pretty much whatever they want — including ignoring the law altogether. I was thinking of ACBL Tournament directors, though I think the ACBL would take the same position for club directors. OTOH, the ACBL has always seemed to me to be a bit schizo where clubs are concerned. On the one hand, they tell club directors they're supposed to apply certain regulations, yet on the other they disavow any interest in controlling what club directors do. I suppose it all depends on who at ACBL HQ you talk to, or maybe on the phase of the moon. Or both.

[ggwhiz]

 Coelacanth, on 2011-August-15, 10:13, said:

ACBL Club Game

Let's say that rather than approaching me privately, the "accused" player had called me to the table during the auction.

I imagine a conversation proceeding along the lines of:

Years ago in the club a situation happened but likely a more serious accusation was made and the Director said "OK, one of you is facing a 3 month suspension." Pointing at each in turn he said "If proven, it's you and if not it's you."

The comment was withdrawn at the speed of light and the accused declined to press the matter further.

Maybe a private chat with your accuser along those lines would make the point that if you confront anyone with a hint of an ethical issue, you better back it up. Bring it to the Director privately (as your accused did) and it will be handled with tact.

[mycroft]

I have the same reservations as the OP, because there are definitely different cases that may come to the TD at the end of the night sounding the same.

I have been known to mention, after the hand, that "it is probably best if you don't <X>, because while I'm sure you aren't doing anything, (situation <Y>)." For instance, I won't put boards in my lap when they're done being made, because one of my colleagues caught someone else shuffling and dealing the board above the table, putting it in his lap, and then swapping in a cold deck. I can't imagine anyone else trying this, but proper procedure stops it from even being a concern.

Usually what I get is "I'd never have thought of that!" - and that's why people who *do* think of it get away with it for so long, of course.

Given that I am who I am, and local people know who I am, I don't end up with "he accused me of cheating" - they understand I'm trying to stop accusations from others. But I am not "your average bridge player" - sometimes that helps, sometimes it hurts.

[Vampyr]

 aguahombre, on 2011-August-15, 10:41, said:

Nicely worded, but the sloppy person is not the person we are asked to deal with in the OP.

True, but this seems like the person that should be dealt with.

[Free]

In every competition of any game/sport, at every level, there are cheats. Because of that, people don't trust suspicious behavior. But for some reason it's taboo in bridge to point out that someone's behaviour might be misinterpreted, let alone accuse someone of cheating (remember the whole "italian signaling" story?). I find this very hypocrite, and the person coming to the OP should first be reeducated. Don't try to solve the effect, solve the cause and you'll solve the effects with it.

[Cyberyeti]

This reminds me of a situation in a large tournament in the UK. A group of Finnish tourists used to come over to play, and one pair kept on jabbering on in Finnish after looking at their cards, I had no idea if they were talking about lunch or saying "ace to four ...". I spoke to the director while taking a toilet break, and he had a word with them between rounds to explain why they shouldn't be doing this.

I think you should have a proper word with the accuser between rounds, pointing out to them that they should have called the director and said what they wanted to say in the director's presence. In a club situation I wouldn't penalise the accuser unless it was not the first time. I would then have a word with the accused to explain why this placement is not a good idea.

I wouldn't take it further in either case unless the same thing happened again and there was no good reason for it (medical issue meaning cards difficult to hold etc).

[Coelacanth]

Just to put a postscript on the whole discussion...

I did finally have a word with the person who'd made the original "accusation". She was extremely contrite.

"It had been a frustrating session...I just said it without thinking...realized immediately that I shouldn't have...I know very well that he's not trying to cheat..."

The two players in question have made their peace, and that should be an end of it AFAIC.

[RMB1]

 Coelacanth, on 2011-September-02, 09:02, said:

"It had been a frustrating session...I just said it without thinking...realized immediately that I shouldn't have...I know very well that he's not trying to cheat..."

It not a bridge skill but a life skill: in this sort of position, an immediate apology works wonders.