[rduran1216]

A
A
AKQ10987x
AK9


All red, 3 passes to you, MP.

Your call.

[jillybean]

2♣ what else? Expecting to play in 6 or 7 nt

[Bbradley62]

I see no way to find out whether partner has ♣Q or a major K with a diamond entry. So, I open 7NT at MP or 7D at IMPs.

This post has been edited by Bbradley62: 2011-March-10, 02:05

[jillybean]

Bbradley62, on 2011-March-10, 01:18, said:

I see no way to find out whether partner has ♣Q or a major K with a heart entry. So, I open 7NT at MP or 7H at IMPs.

I think you mean Diamond entry and 7D, not hearts.

[Bbradley62]

jillybean, on 2011-March-10, 01:37, said:

I think you mean Diamond entry and 7D, not hearts.

Yes, thank you. Very late here But maybe I don't want to give up 2 IMPs when we have 13 tricks...

[phil_20686]

Could you not have an auction like: 2c-2d-4d-5d-6c, where 4d was suit setting and 6c should ask for a 3rd round club control for grand?

[mtvesuvius]

OK, so where I learned the game, 7NT is the highest possible bid, since I am not from the era of 8 level sacrifices.

This is the ultimate case of slow arrival, after all, what are we worried about? 2♣ is not going to pass out, lol. Opening 7♦ or 7NT, other than the shock effect, is completely worthless and silly.

I don't know if I'll be able to find out what I need, but I'm going to be creative about it. My plan is to open 2♣ and rebid 4♣ setting trump. Partner will do something, I'll ask for the ♣Q after the 0/3 response, and if partner denies it I'll bid 6N, if they show it, I'll bid 7N. Easy game! It'd be more interesting if we were missing a major suit queen.

[mtvesuvius]

double post

[karaprens]

There is a small flaw in your logic. If partner has 4/5 small clubs he will give you club queen. By bidding 4♣ you showed a solid/semi solid suit.

Not opening 2♣ is silly. Maybe you get lucky and learn something useful. Even though you can`t learn anything and get heavily preempted you are back to square one. Bid 7nt and cross your fingers.

[FrancesHinden]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-10, 06:32, said:

OK, so where I learned the game, 7NT is the highest possible bid, since I am not from the era of 8 level sacrifices.

This is the ultimate case of slow arrival, after all, what are we worried about? 2♣ is not going to pass out, lol. Opening 7♦ or 7NT, other than the shock effect, is completely worthless and silly.

I don't know if I'll be able to find out what I need, but I'm going to be creative about it. My plan is to open 2♣ and rebid 4♣ setting trump. Partner will do something, I'll ask for the ♣Q after the 0/3 response, and if partner denies it I'll bid 6N, if they show it, I'll bid 7N. Easy game! It'd be more interesting if we were missing a major suit queen.

I was thinking of this route, but it doesn't let you distinguish between Kxx xxxxx Jx xxx and Kxx xxxxx 32 xxx in partner's hand.
Also, it's matchpoints, and your route has told the opponents that you are interested in the third round of clubs. They are going to find discarding against your 6NT contract easier.

[gnasher]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-March-10, 06:32, said:

Opening 7♦ or 7NT, other than the shock effect, is completely worthless and silly.

I don't think it's completely worthless. An advantage of opening at the seven level is that it may be hard for them to defend correctly. But I agree that a scientific approach is probably better.

Quote

I don't know if I'll be able to find out what I need, but I'm going to be creative about it. My plan is to open 2♣ and rebid 4♣ setting trump. Partner will do something, I'll ask for the ♣Q after the 0/3 response, and if partner denies it I'll bid 6N, if they show it, I'll bid 7N. Easy game! It'd be more interesting if we were missing a major suit queen.

I don't see how that gains over phil_20686's suggestion of 2♣-2♦;4♦-5♦;6♣ or 2♣-2♦;4♦-4M;5♣-5♦;6♣. That works whenever partner has ♣Q - he'll cuebid 7♣ - and also when he is 2-2 in the minors - he'll bid 7♦.

Showing clubs also risks reaching a poor contract when partner decides that ♣Jxx or ♣Jxxx is equivalent to ♣Q.

[Free]

I'd open 2♣ for sure. If partner responds negative, I can ask specific Queens.

[rduran1216]

ok.

How about if the auction goes...

p p 2D (flannery) ?

Now what?

[Fluffy]

why don't we just set hearts as trumps then keycard and then bid 7NT, the opponent holding ♥Q but not ♥K might be fooled.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

rduran1216, on 2011-March-10, 00:13, said:

A
A
AKQ10987x
AK9


All red, 3 passes to you, MP.

Your call.

" When NO suit agreement, 4NT = RKC for the 2C bidder's suit " :

2C - 2D
3D - expected 3H or 3S
4NT ( RKC for ♦ ) - 5C ( 0/3)
next, by-passing the K-ask:
6C! ( 3rd Rnd Ctrl ask for Clubs ) - ??
.................................................6D = no cQ >> bid 6NT
................................................6NT = cQ >> bid 7NT
.................................................7C = cQJ >> bid 7NT
.................................................7D = doubleton ♣ >> pass 7D ( Hope partner has at least ONE Diam ) .

[Hanoi5]

I thought of Vesuvius way first. But then Frances raised a good point of defenders having an easy time keeping their clubs. Maybe 6NT is the best opening, maybe 2♣ and a slow auction to determine if partner has a suitable hand (diamond support) or a suitable hand for clubs (club Queen). I'll take the club road though, for it might lead to new roads in the end, for example after asking about the club Q and not finding it in partner bidding 6♦, it'll get us at least to 6NT and maybe to 7 if we're lucky.

[Zelandakh]

This looks like a nice hand for one of Ben's gadgets, 2C - 2D - 4D = RKCB for diamonds. With the right agreements the bidding might go...

2C - 2D
4D - 4S (0/4)
5C = king ask promising all 5 kc + DQ or equivalent
... - 5D no side king
6C = 3rd rd ask in clubs

There seems to be just enough space to find out everything!

[dake50]

Really no one has Club-ask, D-ask, K-ask??

[OleBerg]

I see no harm in starting with 2♣.

After partners reply, I jump to 4♦, setting thrumphs. I might just get lucky, and get an intelligent auction.

Maybe:

2♣ - 2X
4♦ - 5♦
6♣

Partner should have a good picture of what is working values.

If I want to guess, I can always jump to the 7-level.