[losercover]

Is this natural and forcing? What are openers responses? Does NT promise a heart stopper?

[barmar]

it's 4SF, since opener has denied 4 hearts. 1NT wouldn't promise a heart stopper, since you're forced to bid it with most balanced hands. But if you're going to game, you should use 4SF to give opener a chance to further describe his hand.

Opener's responses would be 2♠ if he's 5-5 in the blacks, 2NT with a heart stopper, 3♦ with 3+ ♦, otherwise 3♣.

[JLOGIC]

So you recommend bidding 3C with 4324 and no heart stopper?

[kenrexford]

JLOGIC, on 2011-April-03, 02:52, said:

So you recommend bidding 3C with 4324 and no heart stopper?

Interesting problem, theoretically. If one makes the assumption that Opener would have bid 1NT with 4-3-2-4 and a heart stopper (why not?), then 2NT would typically show extra club length (the only reason to bid spades with a heart stop is unbalanced, meaning at least 4♠/5♣) and 3♣, if denying a heart stopper, might in fact be 4324 with a COV.

Strangely, this logical inversion might make sense, as 2NT gets below 3♣ and thus allows Responder to show the club support cheaply, which might be ideal.

[mike777]

barmar, on 2011-April-03, 01:04, said:

it's 4SF, since opener has denied 4 hearts. 1NT wouldn't promise a heart stopper, since you're forced to bid it with most balanced hands. But if you're going to game, you should use 4SF to give opener a chance to further describe his hand.

Opener's responses would be 2♠ if he's 5-5 in the blacks, 2NT with a heart stopper, 3♦ with 3+ ♦, otherwise 3♣.

edit

[TWO4BRIDGE]

barmar, on 2011-April-03, 01:04, said:

Opener's responses would be 2♠ if he's 5-5 in the blacks .....

Some would take that 2nd Sp bid as showing 5s/6c ....
If you are prone to open 1C with a bare minimum 5/5 in the blacks, I would differentiate between the minimum 5/5 and a "good" 5/6 after the 4th Suit GF as follows:

1C - 1:red
1S - 2:other red ( 4SGF )
.. 2S = minimum 5/5
..3S:jump = good 5/6

[tolvyrj]

In Finland we use this method; 2♥ is 4th suit and game forcing and responses r, here:
2Nt: Yes i do have a ♥ stopper; all others deny it
2♠: 5 ♠ aka 6♣
3♣: 5+ ♣
3♦: 4+ ♦
3♥: No ♥ stopper, no extra length in black suits, no 4 card ♦
First u answer the question do u have a ♥ stopper, if not then something else. Of course if u black suits; here, r something exceptional then u can use u imagination, or if u bal. say 18-19 then jump in Nt.

[aguahombre]

Some would say that the possibility of opener being 4-3-2-4 is long gone. The diamond response, if it had spades too, would have longer diamonds and a game force hand. So 4-3-2-4 would have rebid NT the first time...Responder could then show spades with GF and, say 4-X-5+-X.

Others just bid up the line, so this post would not apply.