[Vampyr]

No one has mentioned Meckwell Lite. I was under the impression that this was the most popular Precision variant.

By the way, OP, choosing from a list will work well only when the system you choose has a good book written about it.

[spotlight7]

Vampyr, on 2018-May-12, 12:15, said:

No one has mentioned Meckwell Lite. I was under the impression that this was the most popular Precision variant.

By the way, OP, choosing from a list will work well only when the system you choose has a good book written about it.

Precsion in the 90s is a very good Precision book.


Reese wrote a Precision book many years ago.

Jannersten also wrote a Precision book.


An ex partner of mine John Montgomery wrote a well regarded Precision variant.

Revision Precision. You can find a copy on the BridgeWithDan site.


Back in the day, Relay Precision was released in a 14 volume small softcover set.

[PrecisionL]

spotlight7, on 2018-May-12, 16:11, said:

Back in the day, Relay Precision was released in a 14 volume small softcover set.

Relay Precision by R.J. Danielson only published 5 volumes in softback pamphlet form, 1977-79.

[liebelt]

My brother-in-law developed a precision system that we use unlike anything mentioned here. Every opening bid and almost every initial overcall gives points in a 3 pt range (9-11, 12-14 ...) It's VERY precise. Most of the openings and overcalls are artificial so there's no shape or suit info, but partner knows the partnership point count and can start the search for a trump fit with an appropriate level of enthusiasm. The statement above that a precision system has to have a strong 2C opening is just wrong. Most do but it's not necessary. It seems to me that precision just means that opening bids have a narrower range of possible points than the 12-21 points for one level openings in Standard American. Perhaps I'm missing something.
Thanks,
Steve Liebelt

[Vampyr]

liebelt, on 2018-May-24, 00:42, said:

My brother-in-law developed a precision system that we use unlike anything mentioned here. Every opening bid and almost every initial overcall gives points in a 3 pt range (9-11, 12-14 ...) It's VERY precise. Most of the openings and overcalls are artificial so there's no shape or suit info, but partner knows the partnership point count and can start the search for a trump fit with an appropriate level of enthusiasm. The statement above that a precision system has to have a strong 2C opening is just wrong. Most do but it's not necessary. It seems to me that precision just means that opening bids have a narrower range of possible points than the 12-21 points for one level openings in Standard American. Perhaps I'm missing something.
Thanks,
Steve Liebelt

In Precision the 1♣ opening is not an advantage; it is the limited opening bids that do all the hard work. Artificial opening bids at the one level are not so great since it is your first chance to show something about your shape at a low level. You may have eg a second suit, so you need to take the opportunity now to start the conversation.

You say that partner can “start the search for a trump fit with an appropriate level of enthusiasm”, but the level you should be concerned about is the inappropriately high level of the beginning at which he will have to do this. Overcalls without anchor suits will just shut you out of the bidding forever.

I think that we all, as teenagers, had a mental experiment where we designed systems that based openings purely on HCP. I am not sure anyone actually tried to play it, but if they did they will have quickly learnt that bridge is all about shape.

[blackshoe]

Standard Modern Precision, Second Edition, Daniel Neill, Masterpoint Press, 2017.

[DozyDom]

OK I know this is a bit of a weird direction to take this, but I was under the misconception for a while that strong pass systems count as types of precision, as they also limit the openings. Is that at all accurate?

[PrecisionL]

blackshoe, on 2018-June-02, 02:57, said:

Simple Modern Precision, Second Edition, Daniel Neill, Masterpoint Press, 2017.

Standard Modern Precision:

https://ebooksbridge...c903d735b2ca27c

[hrothgar]

DozyDom, on 2018-June-02, 03:21, said:

OK I know this is a bit of a weird direction to take this, but I was under the misconception for a while that strong pass systems count as types of precision, as they also limit the openings. Is that at all accurate?

There really isn't a good working definition of what constitutes a "Precision" type system and which don't, however, I suspect that most people would say that strong pass goes a step too far...

From my perspective, the defining characteristics of a Precision type system are

1. A strong club opening
2. 5 card majors
3. A natural and limited 2♣ opening that shows at least 5 clubs
4. An artificial bid (usually 2♦ or 2♥ to show Diamond shortness)
5. A weakish NT in 1st - 3rd seats (15-17 is clearly too strong and I'd argue that 14 - 16 is kinda out there)

[1Wishbone1]

I like how you've opened this up:

hrothgar, on 2018-June-03, 17:11, said:

From my perspective, the defining characteristics of a Precision type system are

May I add to it?

The Precision Club is a System that may be thought of as a Complete Classification System. Initially, if HCPs are thought of as "Power", Hands will fall into certain (easy) classifications."

Quote

1. A strong club opening

Start with any 16+ Hand (exception: "2 NT" = 19 -21-ish). This is down one point from the Italian Systems and despite variations due to perceived "Playing Strength" this one has stood the test of time.

Quote

2. 5 card majors

11 - 15 HCPs. Meckwell frequently with 10, Reese @ 12. Here is where the work begins. The Classification System LIMITS HCPs and this confers advantages for a Partnership immediately ("So they say..."). Partner knows whether Game/Slam is a function of raw HCPs more easily. Is 1 NT Forcing a "Precision Requirement"?

Quote

3. A natural and limited 2♣ opening that shows at least 5 clubs.

Also 11 - 15 HCPs. Some tinkering under the hood through the years. The original was "6+ Clubs" or "5 Clubs and a 4 Card Major". Now it's (Generally) 6+ Clubs PERIOD. ("It's that clear", saith Berkowitz and Manley.)

Quote

4. A weakish NT in 1st - 3rd seats (15-17 is clearly too strong and I'd argue that 14 - 16 is kinda out there)

(Changing the numbering scheme here for a reason). The Weak NT was a staple of the early Precisions and there has been some variation through the years. Wei thought the Weak NT was sufficiently challenging to befuddle the Defense but, with popularity comes familiarity and the surprise factor is no longer apparent. The reasoning for it's use now is that the "1 NT" bid is seen as powerful in it's own right, the more times it gets used, the better.

5. 1 Diamond: 11 - 15 HCPs - is the "Utility Bid". Rodwell: "Like McDonalds, millions and million of 1 Diamond Bids". Hamman: "I don't like Precision because you've destroyed both Minor Suits..." Having a Diamond utility bid allows you to bid hands with 4 card Majors and certain other awkward hands (This gives the Weak NT "Utility Bid" a partner). Originally, the Diamond Bid was for traditional weak Minor Diamond hands with (preferably) 4 Diamonds and a nervous look on you face when you had 3. Now, the Standard is "One Diamond => 2 or more Diamonds" and no one gives a second look. I haven't read the computer printouts on missed partials with a Diamond Suit but Meckwell seems OK with it. With the 2 Club Bid @ 6+, the Diamond Bid takes on a little more work.
***
With this Straightforward Classification System, most hands are covered and this very easy System gives a number of benefits:

A. The Utility Bids, 1 Club, 1 NT,1 Diamond, give 3 strengths with which Responder can evaluate combined hands, with limits on HCPs with Distribution Bids coming.
B. Major Suit Bids are featured with Limit Bids.
C. The Minors require special work but since Minors have always been the poor relations, there's nothing new on this front.
***
With this there are some Hands that are Not Covered or Awkward. These Hands are few but they bring the Complexity that threatens many Players:

Quote

5. An artificial bid (usually 2♦ or 2♥ to show Diamond shortness).

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!" Are you going to Open 2 Diamonds strictly to describe 4-4-1-4 or 4-4-0-5 hands or do you include 4-3-1-5 or 3-4-1-5(etc.) Hands?"

Question: In your 2/1 System, do you play Flannery? As you develop a Partnership, you will add Complexity as a matter of course, unless you are a member of the Becker Family. What this "Classification System" gives you is something taken away with the "Special Bids" in the eyes of many. Slam Bidding has reached a certain Level of Complexity in all "Modern" Systems today.

The Precision System worked and still does. I think these characteristics above are Central to being able to declare a "Precision Bidding System".


Thanx,

CW