[Phil]

A BBF regular and I held these hands:

Scoring: IMP

---

and perpetrated this auction:

1♣ - 1♠
4♦ - 4♥
5♣ - 5♠
6♠ - Pass

ATB if any.

[ArtK78]

I assume that 4♥ was last train.

East should LOVE his hand when opener bids 4♦. Two extra spades, no wasted values. For this reason, I find East's 5♠ bid over 5♣ to be quite puzzling.

Why did East not bid 5♦ over 5♣? I don't know if that will be sufficient to get the partnership to a grand, but it will keep the wheels moving ahead rather than stopping them. Presumably, West assumed the ♦A was missing and so he signed off at 6♠.

Therefore, the blame, if there is any, is on East, for denying possession of the ♦A. West must terminate all grand slam exploration once East refuses to acknowledge possession of the ♦A.

[rogerclee]

Uhh..

1C-1S
4D-4N
5C-5N
6C-7S

ArtK78 said:

Therefore, the blame, if there is any,

hahaha

[Fluffy]

East is the guy who can count 13 tricks here, will be hard without blackwood though. Don't think he is worth 4NT with 2 tiny hearts.

[aguahombre]

No blame to the players. A different style, such as old first-addition 2/1 would have been more successful.

Opener would consider himself too strong for a splinter and start with a reverse, intending to jump to 4S later. Responder would mess this plan up by showing extra spade length and 9+ Pts. Then opener uses RKC, followed by eventual 6C (after responder showed trump queen and no outside king) to bring in the club queen as a factor.

[billw55]

rogerclee, on May 20 2010, 10:34 AM, said:

Uhh..

1C-1S
4D-4N
5C-5N
6C-7S

RKC with xx in hearts? If opener lacks the ♥A we are open to two losers there. Isn't this sort of thing exactly what last train is for?

Agree that east should bid 5♦ over 5♣. What possible reason is there not to?

[pooltuna]

Phil, on May 20 2010, 10:20 AM, said:

A BBF regular and I held these hands:

Dealer: West Vul: ???? Scoring: IMP

♠ AKxx ♥ AJxx ♦ x ♣ AKJx ♠ QJTxxx ♥ xx ♦ Axx ♣ Qx

and perpetrated this auction:

1♣ - 1♠
4♦ - 4♥
5♣ - 5♠
6♠ - Pass

ATB if any.

The red letter (I? or M?) goes to EAST (maybe should be yellow letter (for cowardice)?) he holds 2 more ♠ than he could the ♦A and the working (the partner did open this suit) ♣ Q. If nothing else is available make life hard on partner and over 4♦ call 5♦. I mean you are looking at the A♦ + 2 ruffs + some number between 4 and 6 ♠ tricks so partner has to come up with 4 rounded suit tricks

[hanp]

Serious underbidding by East!

West had such a strong hand, I think 4NT might have been better but much easier if east bids it first.

[kfay]

East SUCKS!

[MFA]

What was 4♦? (3♦ was also available)

East underbid. If he decides not to keycard 4NT he should certainly cooperate over 5♣ since he has a very strong hand in context.

I don't like west's 5♣. Apparently he was already in small slam at least, and trying to bid a grand without ever keycarding is filthy stuff. I suppose he could be excused if a later 5NT would be RKC.

[Codo]

billw55, on May 21 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

RKC with xx in hearts? If opener lacks the ♥A we are open to two losers there. Isn't this sort of thing exactly what last train is for?

So you think that partner splinters in diamonds with Akxx, xx,x,AKQxxx?
No way. He can bid4 club with that hand. So he must have more, at least Kx in hearts.

[RichMor]

Is East really to blame ?

Would West also rebid 4♦ with
♠ AKxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AJxx

or
♠ Axxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AKJx

And would East want to bid a grand facing these hands ?

[hanp]

RichMor, on May 20 2010, 02:23 PM, said:

Is East really to blame ?

Yes definitely.

Quote

Would West also rebid 4♦ with
♠ AKxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AJxx

Yes

Quote

or
♠ Axxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AKJx

Yes

Quote

And would East want to bid a grand facing these hands ?

What's your point?

Not cooperating with slam is different from bidding a grand. On the second hand you gave you are missing a keycard, there are methods to find out.

On the OP's hand partner has the club king, your first example does not. Again, you can find out about this by starting with blackwood.

[billw55]

Codo, on May 20 2010, 02:15 PM, said:

billw55, on May 21 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

RKC with xx in hearts?  If opener lacks the ♥A we are open to two losers there.  Isn't this sort of thing exactly what last train is for?

So you think that partner splinters in diamonds with Akxx, xx,x,AKQxxx?
No way. He can bid4 club with that hand. So he must have more, at least Kx in hearts.

Right, but Kx or Kxx or KJx all are subject to two losers. Do you bid 50-50 slams?

[karlson]

I think I wouldn't quite drive the east cards to slam, there are still some normal splinters which will give basically no play (e.g. AKxx KQx x Axxxx). I would bid 5♦ over 4♦ and hope that described my hand pretty well. Over that, west might well drive to grand -- with no heart control (surely all hands with heart control also bid 4♥ despite it being last train), but not much wasted in diamonds, east must have either very long spades or a double fit in clubs.

I think it's normal to play that 3♦ is either invitational or very strong, that would have helped on this hand perhaps.

[rogerclee]

karlson, on May 20 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

I think I wouldn't quite drive the east cards to slam, there are still some normal splinters which will give basically no play (e.g. AKxx KQx x Axxxx).

On a non-club lead you are on a finesse. And it's not even a 4D bid (to me).

[gnasher]

MFA, on May 20 2010, 08:08 PM, said:

I don't like west's 5♣. Apparently he was already in small slam at least, and trying to bid a grand without ever keycarding is filthy stuff.

That might be a reasonable general rule, but I don't think it applies on this hand. West had four of the five keycards, and he could be certain that East's next bid would either show or deny ♦A.

It seems straightforward to bid the grand after 5♣:
5♣-5♦
5♥-5♠
6♣-7♠

[Jlall]

East's bidding was silly.

Gnasher, how can east sign off in 5S on that auction?

[RichMor]

hanp, on May 20 2010, 02:28 PM, said:

RichMor, on May 20 2010, 02:23 PM, said:

Is East really to blame ?

Yes definitely.

Quote

Would West also rebid 4♦ with
♠ AKxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AJxx

Yes

Quote

or
♠ Axxx
♥ AKxx
♦ x
♣ AKJx

Yes

Quote

And would East want to bid a grand facing these hands ?

What's your point?

Not cooperating with slam is different from bidding a grand. On the second hand you gave you are missing a keycard, there are methods to find out.

On the OP's hand partner has the club king, your first example does not. Again, you can find out about this by starting with blackwood.

See title of post for "the point"

[gnasher]

Jlall, on May 20 2010, 09:31 PM, said:

Gnasher, how can east sign off in 5S on that auction?

Ah yes. For some reason I thouught East had opened the bidding, in which case Last Train followed by a cue-bid had done justice to his hand.