[Bende]

What is the meaning of 2NT in this sequence?

(1♠) - 2♦ - (2♠) - pass;
(pass) - 2NT

Is it natural?
Does it show a non specific side suit?
Does it show a specific side suit?

If it does show a specific side suit, which? An argument can be made for clubs, since with hearts one can double. If 2NT shows clubs, what does 3♣ show? An argument can also be made for hearts, since with clubs one can just bid 3♣. If 2NT shows hearts, what does dbl show?

If it makes any difference, I am assuming that a direct 2♠ shows a two suiter with hearts and a minor and good suits (i.e. not good-bad two suiter).

[helene_t]

During the Cumbria Congress, there was an appeal related to the failure to alert this 2NT bid (except that overcaller's suit was clubs instead of diamonds): the accused partnership claimed that it was just general bridge knowledge that this 2NT bid shows 6-4, not a specific partnership agreement.

Here, overcaller could have four hearts. I suppose he could, alternatively, have four clubs: this will depend on the partnerships style regarding a direct 2NT overcall. If they overcall 2NT with "any" 5-5 minor hand, then overcaller could bid 3♣ now to show 6♦4♣. OTOH, if the partnership plays a split-range unusual 2NT, 3♣ now would show an intermediate hand with 5-5 minors, and 6♦4♣ would have to bid 2NT.

Double does no show four hearts, although it doesn't deny it either, I suppose. It is typically 1363.

[jjbrr]

minors with better ♦

[rbforster]

Minors, emphasizing diamonds, 6-4 typically.

[mikeh]

advancer should assume minors, with a 2 card discrepancy in suit length, but subject to overcaller correcting clubs to diamonds, to show 4=6 reds. This latter wrinkle would be improbable if one were to play ELC doubles, since presumably overcaller has a decent hand for this sequence and would likely have doubled with 4=6.

I would assume this approach in any pickup partnership with an expert, or if my opps did it (tho I would ask before the opening lead was made if the auction didn't make it clear)

[pooltuna]

Bende, on Apr 26 2010, 09:56 AM, said:

What is the meaning of 2NT in this sequence?

(1♠) - 2♦ - (2♠) - pass;
(pass) - 2NT

Is it natural?
Does it show a non specific side suit?
Does it show a specific side suit?

If it does show a specific side suit, which? An argument can be made for clubs, since with hearts one can double. If 2NT shows clubs, what does 3♣ show? An argument can also be made for hearts, since with clubs one can just bid 3♣. If 2NT shows hearts, what does dbl show?

If it makes any difference, I am assuming that a direct 2♠ shows a two suiter with hearts and a minor and good suits (i.e. not good-bad two suiter).

IMO shows xy64. With xy65 I would call 2NT over 1♠

[spotlight7]

Hi:

2NT should show 4 hearts and Ds(tends to be six)

X would be something like 1363

With clubs you can bid them.

Regards,
Robert

[cherdanno]

As a general rule: when
- you previously had the chance to bid NT, and you didn't, and
- partner has kepts passing, and
- now you are bidding NT at a higher level,
then NT is not natural. Instead it shows additional shape, and more particularly a shape that you couldn't show by just bidding a suit.
(Here if you were 5-5 in the minors you would bid 3C, if you were 5-4 you should probably pass or reopen with a double, but with 6-4 you need to bid and don't want to just bid 3D either.)

[jdonn]

I think it could be clubs or hearts. There is no other good way to show 4 hearts, and you rarely expect to bid to the 4 level in any case, so why limit yourself to only being able to show clubs? Granted you won't get to hearts every time you have a fit there (only if partner prefers both hearts and clubs to diamonds) but there is still some gain.

[aguahombre]

Could be either, but more likely clubs. Negative inference from not doubling in ELC situation.

[jdonn]

Why does everyone assume ELC like it's as standard as stayman or something? I never play it nor do most people I know.

[helene_t]

Yeah, why not mention that if we play raptor it might be natural?

[junyi_zhu]

jdonn, on Apr 26 2010, 11:06 PM, said:

Why does everyone assume ELC like it's as standard as stayman or something? I never play it nor do most people I know.

it certainly plays well when the bidding isn't high, and when bidding gets high, I don't really think ELC plays well.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Apr 26 2010, 06:06 PM, said:

Why does everyone assume ELC like it's as standard as stayman or something? I never play it nor do most people I know.

Who says it's normal or standard? I don't like it, don't play it, think it is theoretically flawed, but there are those who use it, and those people will probably see no reason to include a 4=6 red hand within 2N.

Those who argue that 2N must be minors either play elc or don't worry about hearts

[the hog]

6D and 4C. Good way to show the minors.

[jillybean]

if 3♣/2♦ is 55 and 2N/2♦ is 64 , how do you bid a 65 hand ?

[mikeh]

jillybean, on Apr 26 2010, 09:55 PM, said:

if 3♣/2♦ is 55 and 2N/2♦ is 64 , how do you bid a 65 hand ?

there is only so much information one can convey with bidding. So, in standard, 3♣ would show 5=5 or 6=5. The point is that this type of artificial notrump bid depicts a 2 card discrepancy in suit length...this is viewed, by those who play it (including me), as important.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on Apr 26 2010, 07:58 PM, said:

jillybean, on Apr 26 2010, 09:55 PM, said:

if 3♣/2♦ is 55 and 2N/2♦ is 64 , how do you bid a 65 hand ?

there is only so much information one can convey with bidding. So, in standard, 3♣ would show 5=5 or 6=5. The point is that this type of artificial notrump bid depicts a 2 card discrepancy in suit length...this is viewed, by those who play it (including me), as important.

Why do you need 3♣ over 2♦ to show 55 when you have (1♠) 2N available.

edited: oops, thanks

[spotlight7]

Hi:

Michaels 1S-2S shows Heartss plus a minor. 1S-2NT* is used to show both minors.

Regards,
Robert

[straube]

I was taught that it showed 4H6D. One could agree it could also show 6D4C but 1) partner might have bid 2N over 1S to show parity in the minors so bidding diamonds and then clubs suggests longer diamonds, plus if it can be an either/or bid then the partnership might wind up in 3D when advancer has something like 4-6-1-2.