[blackshoe]

In another thread, we've been discussing Bergen Raises, the full structure, and other similar full structures of major suit raises, many of which include some version of Jacoby 2NT. This interesting hand came up yesterday:

Scoring: MP

---

Partner opens 1♠. Do you consider your hand

• a game forcing raise?
  
• a limit raise?
  
• something else?

If you're playing your favorite flavor of Jacoby 2NT, do you bid 2NT?

[mich-b]

GF raise.
Would respond Jacoby 2NT.

[jjbrr]

Depends on opener's style, I think. Opposite a limited 1♠ this is a limit raise.

Opposite a normal opener, I'd GF with this.

[Free]

Agree with jjbrr, depends a lot on opening style. Opposite "value of 12+HCP" I'd GF with this.

[ArtK78]

Playing any "sound" style, this is a minimum game forcing raise. So my plan would be to bid Jacoby 2NT followed by a game bid.

Playing any "light" style this is a limit raise. However, I might take a page out of Granovetter's book and make a limit raise followed by a game bid. Bid game and try to make it. [Granovetter made an argument in one of his articles in his old "Bridge Today" magazine about playing limit raises as forcing to game. In other words, announce to your partner that your values are less than a traditional game force but agree that the limit raise is forcing to game. There is something to be said for this approach]

Playing a super light style (open all 10 HCP hands), as I do with a couple of partners, this would be on the low side of a limit raise. I could justify making a mixed raise on these cards opposite a super light opening, but I think that would be a little too much on the conservative side. So I will still make the limit raise.

[pooltuna]

blackshoe, on Apr 28 2010, 09:25 AM, said:

In another thread, we've been discussing Bergen Raises, the full structure, and other similar full structures of major suit raises, many of which include some version of Jacoby 2NT. This interesting hand came up yesterday:

Scoring: MP

---

Partner opens 1♠. Do you consider your hand

• a game forcing raise?
  
• a limit raise?
  
• something else?

If you're playing your favorite flavor of Jacoby 2NT, do you bid 2NT?

In MPs I suspect you need to treat this like it is a 4 card LR. Vul at IMPs this is a much harder problem and I would probably Meckwell the hand

[jdonn]

I think you must force to game unless you have some system where you open light. But I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to go down.

[mikeh]

On this hand, I use a 4 card limit raise. I then cooperate with any slam try and I bid game over any signoff.

IOW, this is a gf, but I prefer an immediate gf to be based on a good minimum opening, not a soft 12 count. This approach allows/encourages partner to look for slams based on fit and controls rather than hcp.

Another solution is to bid 1N as F1 and then bid game, but I want partner to know, immediately, about the trump fit. If he has slam interest with bad trump, over a limit raise, I have a great hand. And all too often, he won't have slam interest, even when it is there, when looking at a Queen high spade suit.

If playing with screens, I'd write a note to my screenmate (but not show it to him, other than by making sure he saw me write it) before bidding the limit raise, so that he won't think that my action was a change of mind occasioned by any hesitation by partner. That may be a little paranoid.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Apr 28 2010, 12:12 PM, said:

On this hand, I use a 4 card limit raise. I then cooperate with any slam try and I bid game over any signoff.

Hmmm?

Quote

If playing with screens, I'd write a note to my screenmate (but not show it to him, other than by making sure he saw me write it) before bidding the limit raise, so that he won't think that my action was a change of mind occasioned by any hesitation by partner. That may be a little paranoid.

Hmmm?

Edit: (Oh never mind I see, you are bidding something below 3♠ as your limit raise sorry)

[whereagles]

I consider this a GF and would bid 2NT. Later I'll suggest to play 3NT if the system allows for it.

[Siegmund]

Limit raise for me, unless partner is an extremely conservative opener.

[FrancesHinden]

As others have said, isn't this just an indirect way of asking how sound your opening bid style is?

I would show it as a limit raise opposite a 1st NV 1S opening and a game forcing raise opposite a 2nd vul opening, and am not sure opposite the other two. At matchpoints, I'd stick with a limit raise.

My partner did once stick me with a limit raise, then raised my sign-off to game, on a similar type of hand. We agreed you can do it in theory, but you do risk partner signing off slowly.

[awm]

I'd make my four-card limit raise on this hand and respect partner's decision. There are a lot of negative features.. and partner accepts 4-card limit raises pretty aggressively anyway.

[Jlall]

+1 to it depends how light you open

[Mbodell]

Opposite a "normal" SA or 2/1 partner I'll make J2NT with this. I expect it to be the field action and it is either right, or close to right.

In my strong club partnerships where 1♠ is 5+ cards and 10-15 (but if 5332 then it is usually either 13+ or 15+ depending on vulnerability) I'd tend to bid 4♠ to play, but it is really close (remove the 2 T and I think I'm 50/50 between 4♠ and limit raise and it will probably depend on opponents and mood). It may be a bit of an overbid, but I do like our chances at 4♠ and do like the wide ranging 1♠-4♠ calls.

[ONEferBRID]

Bergen Limit Raise is all it is worth....