[d6monk]

Hi everyone,

I am new to bridge and still learning the basics. One thing that is confusing me is which bidding system I should learn first (and from what book). I have heard about SAYC, 2/1, precision etc. I am really enjoying the game so far, and want to get started off on the right track to improve as quickly as possible. So what would you recommend?

Thanks!

[JLOL]

Learn whichever system is most common in your area. If you are american its probably SAYC.

[d6monk]

Thanks JLOL,

I am in the united states, so I was leaning towards either SAYC or 2/1 since I hear they are the most common here. I will be playing mostly online though. Also, since it will be my first book on bidding do you have any recomendations?

Thanks again!

[Stephen Tu]

IMO start w/ "Bridge for Dummies" by Eddie Kantar.

Later "Commonsense Bidding" + "Modern Bridge Conventions" by Bill Root, Root/Pavlicek. (for the conventions book only focus on the ones dubbed "one star" to begin with). Plus Root's play/defense books.

[Gerben42]

It is more important to understand the logic of bidding rather than what system you really play.

Things like:

* Reverses are strong because they force partner to take a preference on the 3-level.
* 2NT is not a default bid when you are weak and don't have a fit.

are universal.

If you understand the logic, learning a specific system is easy. If not, learning a system is a daunting task.

Unfortunately most teaching is based on trying to learn people a system without the logic...

[kenberg]

The above advice is excellent. I'll add a comment or two anyway.

When I first began playing someone set me up with a partner. He said "How high do you play negative doubles?" . I said "What's a negative double?"

No doubt you have to learn some conventions but when you use them then you must make sure that your partner plays them in the same way. This takes time, not always available in online play. When playing online pickup, I am always delighted to have a partner who agrees to SAYC with Capp and nmf (new minor forcing). Even nmf has some aspects that should be discussed but they only rarely arise to bite you if they are not discussed. When you find a regular partner then you can add on things that you both read about and share an understanding of.

No doubt a well thought out version of 2/1 is superior to SAYC but it's only on a small percentage of hands that this really matters. Good play will often carry you through even if the contract is not optimal. If you play the hands well and develop some bidding judgment then you and a partner can start on a system, very possibly 2/1. I like Mike Lawrence's disk available through bbo, but I wouldn't say that it is for beginners.

As for precision, it just doesn't suit my personality whatever its merits. When I have a good hand and spades, I like to open a spade. But many people like the system a lot and I am not dissing it.

[bill1157]

I have considered (when playing in individuals, where btw sayc is the standard system) just telling pds at the start: "i play everything natural: no stayman, jacoby anything etc or even blackwood". I think i would do fine if i could pull it off.
Failing that, just learn sayc and specifically: responses and continuations to 1NT, capp and 1430, and tell pd you dont play jacoby 2nt.
Beyond that, just make sure you agree with pd which bids are forcing, which are weak.
the other conventions (drury, flannery etc) just dont come up enough to get real worried about.

Bill

[y66]

Gerben's comments are among the most sensible words of advice I've ever read on this topic. When I started visiting this forum a few years ago, Josh Sher made a similar suggestion. Although I keep his post in my notes as a reminder, I still don't apply this fundamental principle of bidding nearly enough.

[d6monk]

Thanks for the tips and info everyone, I really appreciate it!

Gerben, I would have to agree that it is most important to understand the logic of bidding. Do you happen to have any book recommendations for this? Most books I have seen are system specific, and not just that, but basically only teach rules.

Also, as far as learning SAYC, anyone know anything about Standard Bidding with Sayc by Downey and Pomer?

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Failing that, just learn sayc and specifically: responses and continuations to 1NT, capp and 1430, and tell pd you dont play jacoby 2nt.

Strongly disagree with capp & 1430. Capp is totally unnecessary for a beginner & is not a great convention anyway. 1430 is not for beginners, wait until you have advanced some and have a regular partner. Besides most beginners would become better slam bidders if they weren't taught blackwood in the beginning, IMO, as they misuse it constantly.

Quote

Beyond that, just make sure you agree with pd which bids are forcing, which are weak.

Playing online to start, it may be a while before you establish regular partners. The random players you encounter at this level will have all kinds of ideas, often times erroneous, about which bids are forcing or not, which bids are strong & which are weak. So it is best to use books as a reference for these things so you learn the proper accepted methods. Pay special attention to how the meaning of bids change in competition.

[P_Marlowe]

d6monk, on Mar 21 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Thanks JLOL,

I am in the united states, so I was leaning towards either SAYC or 2/1 since I hear they are the most common here.  I will be playing mostly online though.  Also, since it will be my first book on bidding do you have any recomendations?

Thanks again!

Try to find a regular partner.

It is important to understand, that bridge is a partnership game.
In my opinion, it is a big error to play with lots of players, if
one starts to learn, because lots of player (you can include me)
have their own strange preferences / antics, which quite often dont
mesh well together.
If you play with lots of player, you will end up with a hodgepot (?!).

My recommendation is, that you try to establish a regular partnershi
as fast as possible.
And if you have a partner, than the system question will also have
been answered.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: And try to find a place to play Bridge face to face.

[y66]

I don't think you can go wrong with Commonsense Bidding (1986) by William S. Root or Bid Better Play Better (1998) by Dorothy Haydn Truscott.

The Truscott book assumes you already know the basics.

The Downy Pomer book is a useful reference for SAYC. Would not recommend this as a first book on bidding.

[d6monk]

Thanks for the help everyone.

I went out and got Bridge for Dummies and Root's How to Play a Bridge Hand and How to Defend a Bridge Hand. I am reading the dummies book now. After that I think I will have a better grasp on bidding and be able to decide where to go next (Commonsense Bidding, Bid Better Play Better, the Downey Pomer book, Mike Lawrence's 2/1 CD, etc.).

Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it!

[pdmunro]

P_Marlowe, on Mar 22 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

If you play with lots of player, you will end up with a hodgepot (?!).

A great word! The following is from www.answers.com

*******************************************************
hodgepodge
Dictionary: hodge·podge (hŏj'pŏj') n.
A mixture of dissimilar ingredients; a jumble.
[Alteration of Middle English hochepot, from Old French, stew. See hotchpot.]

********************************************************
hotchpotch n.
A hodgepodge.
[Middle English hochepoche, alteration of hochepot. See hotchpot.]

Food Lover's Companion: hotchpotch
[HAHCH-pahch] Each country has its own version of this rich, layered, vegetable-and-meat stew. Scots usually add barley and the meat is mutton or beef or sometimes grouse and rabbit. The English call it hot pot and their famous Lancashire hot pot contains mutton, sheep's kidneys and, when available, oysters, all covered with a layer of potatoes. The Dutch hutspot uses beef, whereas in France and Belgium the dish is referred to as hochepot and the ingredients include pig's ears and feet.

*****************************************************************
hotchpot

Dictionary: hotch·pot (hŏch'pŏt') n. Law.
The gathering together of properties to ensure an equal division of the total for distribution, as among the heirs of an intestate parent.
[Middle English hochepot, from Old French, mixture, stew : hocher, to shake together; see hotch + pot, pot.]

****************************************************************
Hoche·pot

Webster 1913 n.
Hotchpot.
[Obs.] Chaucer.

*****************************************************************

[helene_t]

bill1157, on Mar 22 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

Beyond that, just make sure you agree with pd which bids are forcing, which are weak.

It is certainly important to agree with p on these issues, but I would like to give a warning: it is great fun, but also extremely difficult, to develop a system yourself (together with your p).

So the way to assure consistency with partner's understanding of bidding is to agree to use a particular book, and follow it 100%. As you become more advanced you will agree on several books, and it will be quite a challenge (but hopefully a funny one!) to sort out with partner how to resolve the inconsistencies between the books you use.

[Old York]

Hi

Look for the Beginners/Intermediate lounge on BBO and apply for membership

There are some great teaching sessions and teaching tournaments. Honestly, you can't go wrong there and will always be among friends

Tony

[Mbodell]

y66, on Mar 22 2009, 06:37 PM, said:

I don't think you can go wrong with ... Bid Better Play Better (1998) by Dorothy Haydn Truscott.

I second the reference for this book. I had an older copy but I think it does a really good job of explaining which bids are non-forcing, forcing for 1 round, and game forcing and why they are this and what that means.

[pirate22]

I agree with the instigator of this "Topic" and is already showing a logical approach
to the matter "Logical" = Wavelength partnership understanding/agreement

Question? are you a natural card player i.e. have you played snap-beat your neighbour out of doors-Whist-Solo-pontoon-bragg-poker

There is a saying-- play "KISS" --like everything in this world "One has to learn how to crawl/walk/run"

One should read Acol 12-14 1n/t Punch up E.B.U and navigate the site, and print out "acol" with a few, not many gadgets stayman/slam bidding/card signals,and get a partner to play this--- on BBO there is an acol club........ok, you now understand Basic system---------then promote oneself, to Sayc 5 card majors and better minor/maybe play 1 diam as min 4 card suit,less confusing,and at least an anchor suit-----------remember to walk before you run------if you treat any system one plays as a "Water Tank" full of water, and all around you opps, are undoing the valves to let the water out,you have to, always agree with your partner counter measures-this way you buld up a Vocabulary

To learn card play----watch a good game experts on vu-graph forget about their style of bidding-they still have to make the contract.
In a lot of books there is a "How do you play 4 spades and the lead is K hts",also excercises on how do you bid this hand--
How good is your memory, what pips have been played?and discarded? another tough discipline ---"DISCIPLINE" an important word,and should be an essential agreement with your partner
Go to a local bridge club and play live bridge-you will meet someone, play, and then suggest you play together on a internet bridge site,if you feel "Sympatico"

Bridge is a fascinateing Mind Game-its played the world over, and one does not have to speak their language,remember always, if a wheel falls of,keep calm make a note, and discuss it after the game,the water is running out of the tank:) partner had a reason for making the wrong bid,find out the reason?
I Have to thank my Grandmother for teaching me simple card games at the age of 5 years-13 years "God Bless Her" she sits on my shoulder when im playing )))))
she is not always right,but she gave me a "KICK start in this world"
every success in your endeavours you have much to learn

regards
bridge

[Lobowolf]

For getting new players up to speed, I'm a fan of the Harry Lampert books (The Fun Way to Serious Bridge, and The Fun Way to Advanced Bridge).