[awm]

Here's a modified version of Gazilli I've been toying with. For those unfamiliar, Gazilli is a convention used in a system with wide-ranging major suit openings, where opener's rebid of 2♣ after 1M-1X shows either a natural club rebid or a very strong hand. At this point responder is supposed to bid 2♦ relay with enough for game opposite the strong option, and otherwise make a (usually natural) weak bid. This allows opener to show extras and still stop in 2M when responder has garbage, and frees up the various jump shifts (and 2NT) by opener to show decent distributional hands (as in precision). The main downside is that you can't play in 2♣ anymore (opener's 2♣ rebid is forcing and artificial).

Anyways, I've noticed a few problems in the auction starting 1♠-1NT:

(1) If responder has precisely 1-4-5-3 shape and a bad hand, then opener's 2♣ rebid causes a problem. The best contract is probably 2♣ but of course this can't be reached. Responder is left to bid 2♠ (playing the 5-1 fit) or 2♥ (which should show five) or "fake" a 2♦ relay that should show game values opposite the strong option. Pretty much any choice is undesirable here.

(2) If responder has 1-4-4-4 shape and a bad hand, then again preferencing 2♠ is a poor option. There are various outs, but it tends to be hard to find the best fit when opener is strong but not game forcing.

(3) If responder has 2-4-4-3 or 2-4-3-4 and a bad hand, then a 4-4 heart fit may be missed if opener has the strong hand (but not enough to bid on after responder preferences to 2♠).

Here's my proposed modified version. After 1♠-1NT:

Opener's 2♣ shows either a minimum with hearts or the strong hand. With a very weak hand, responder bids whatever he would bid over a 2♥ call. So 2♥/2♠ are preferences, 2NT is a real minor two suiter (5-5 at least), and 3m is natural with no real interest in either major. If responder relays, opener's 2♥ shows the minimum and again responder can take preference or introduce a suit. Opener's other calls show the big hand.

Opener's 2♥ rebid isn't needed as showing hearts. Instead, it shows a hand with 6+♠. Responder bids whatever he would bid over a natural 2♠ call (most often 2♠). Opener can then bid on with extras to show a good 6-4 for example, or bid 2NT to show the equivalent of a 3♠ jump in values but with a poor suit (or 3♠ with a good suit).

Opener's 2♠ bid isn't needed as showing spades, and will be used to show clubs with a minimum opener. Playing a non-2/1 GF style system, responder's 2NT rebid over this doesn't have a natural meaning. Instead, we will use it as a scramble, either the awkward 1-4-5-3 pattern or other distributional red two-suiters.

In addition to solving some of the issues above, this method gives us a number of options with strong hands. In particular we have:

(1) Strong, but not GF 5-5 hand can jump in the second suit over 1NT.
(2) GF 5-5 hand can start with a 2NT rebid, and responder's 3♣ relays for second suit.
(3) Strong, but not GF 6-4 hand can start with 2♥ and then bid 2nd suit over 2NT.
(4) Strong spade one-suiters can rebid 3♠, or bid 2♥ then 3♠, or bid 2♥ then 2NT, or bid 2♣ followed by spades. The suggestion is that these distinguish strength and suit quality.
(5) Strong 5332 or 5-4ish hands always go through 2♣ rebid.

Anyone want to poke holes in this idea?

[1eyedjack]

I play something similar to this, but messed around a bit more with the ordering of suits. For instance, slight difference in our methods is
1S-1N-2D shows a 6 card Spade suit
1H-1S(KI)-2C shows a 6 card Heart suit.

This gives responder two steps before committing beyond 2M, and I have found this useful.

[Free]

There's another simple alternative:
2♣ = strong or a minimum hand with 6 card M

Rebidding 2M shows minimum with M and ♣. This way responder can more easily choose to bid the Major, even with singleton...

[Jboling]

In my version of Gazzilli the sequence 1♠-1NT-2♣-2NT shows 3+♣, 4+♦, 3-4♥ and 0-1♠. All the other hands have either 5♥, 2♠, 5♣ or 6♦, and can bid 2♥, 2♠, 3♣ or 3♦ respectively. Downside compared with regular minor showing 2NT is that one with 5-5 or better in the minors (and less than 3♥) have to bid 3♣. But majors go before minors, right? And I calculated that the regular 2NT have 3-4♥ 78% of the time, so it seemed like a winning strategy to actually show that.

Read Adams post more carefully, my suggestion does not help the 2443/2434 hand. Maybe I should change my 2NT bid to 3+♣, 3+♦, 3-4♥ and 0-2♠? At first glance I do not see too much trouble playing it like that.

[awm]

One of the issues here is that I want to be able to reach a good partscore when opener has the strong option and responder has an atrocious minimum.

Playing 2♣ is "6+M or strong" doesn't work in this respect, because responder will almost always bid 2M on the atrocious minimum, which could be a terrible spot when opener has only 5M and extras. Thus opener needs to take another call to avoid a 5-1 (or 5-0) fit and may well end up in a poor contract.

With the method I propose, responder's bids on a bad hand over 2♣ showing "♠+♥ or strong" would be:

2♥ = prefer hearts to spades. opener passes with the minimum hand or bids 2♠ to show spades and a minor with extras (but not GF). Responder can now look for the minor if holding something like 1444 or 13(45) or 14(35). With a spade one-suiter opener would only bid 2♣ if holding GF values anyway (and would bid 3♠ or 4♠ over 2♥ in this case). With extras including spades and hearts, opener can pass or bid 3♥ to look for the best game.

2♠ = 2♠ and 0-3♥. This will be a reasonable partial in all cases, and opener can freely pass with extras but not enough to force game.

2NT, 3♣, 3♦ all show seriously distributional hands (and describe almost exact shape). Opener is well-equipped to pass or bid game in a reasonable strain.

[Jboling]

Hoe about invitational hands with clubs or an invitational 5332? I can imagine that 1♠-1NT-2♠ would be quite wide ranging, about 11-16. And with a 15-17 5332 you have to open 1NT. But what about a 12-14 5332, you have to pass on 1♠-1NT, right? This seems ok, unless you plan on playing forcing 1NT.

There are some disadvantages compared with how I have played Gazzilli, 1♠-1NT-2♣-2♦-?
2♥ = 15-17 balanced or 15-16 with 4♣
2♠ = 11-14, 4+♣
2NT = 17+, a 4 card side suit

This way 2♠ is better limited. And you can with 8 points make an invitation against the 15-17 hand, compared with standard Gazzilli that is.

Otherwise it seems like your suggestion could work well. In my version, after the sequence 1♠-1NT-2♣-2NT I have played that all openers rebids are nonforcing, pass and 3♣ shows a weak hand, 3♦, 3♥ and 3♠ are strong but passable, stronger hands just bid a game. Made some simulations, didn't seem like a big problem. But of course, you can't stop before the 3-level.

[karlson]

I've never played gazilli, but this scheme sounds interesting.

What if responder has the shape (i.e. a lot of hearts) which would invite or force game opposite a normal 2h rebid, but doesn't really want to encourage opposite other strong hands? Is 1s-1n-2c-2d-(not 2h) 100% gf? Is Qx Kxxxx Jxxxx x enough, or is this type of hand forced to bid only 2h (and possibly miss game opposite the minimum).

Also, I think I missed what opener does with a minimum with spades and clubs. Is it still 1s-1n-2h-2d-3c? and the gf black two suiter starts with 2N?

[awm]

Well the claim is the following:

(1) There aren't so many hands with 5-7 points and fewer than six hearts that want to be in 4♥ opposite 11-14 hcp with 5♠ and 4♥. Even if such a hand exists it'd be amazing for opponents to pass over it. Also, a "nice" 7-count can always respond 2♦. I'm not convinced on the example hand of Qx Kxxxx Jxxxx x that I would necessarily bid game over opener's natural 2♥ rebid.

(2) With 5-7 points and 6♥ responder rebids 3♥, which opener can raise to game with an actual heart fit.

(3) With a minimum including spades and clubs, opener rebids 2♠. This shows 11-16 hcp with spades and clubs. Over this responder can pass, bid 3♣ (to play, virtually always 4+♣), bid 2NT as a scramble, or make a natural bid with a six-card red suit. With very distributional club hands 4♣ is available as a strongly invitational raise.

(4) With extras and spades and clubs, opener rebids one of: 3♣ (5-5 NF), 2NT (5-5 GF), 2♥ (6-4 NF), 2♣ (5-4 or 6-4 17+ hcp).

[TimG]

Still playing these mods?

[awm]

TimG, on 2019-April-09, 11:26, said:

Still playing these mods?

Yes, although we now play 2M opening as 9+ to 13 natural which means spade one suited hands have a higher minimum.

[straube]

awm, on 2019-April-10, 04:06, said:

Yes, although we now play 2M opening as 9+ to 13 natural which means spade one suited hands have a higher minimum.

How have you modified 1S-1N for your double-barreled invites? For example, opening a limited 1S precludes very strong hands and your 1N response is more limited.
I've wondered if 1S-1N, 2C could promise 3+H kind of how your 1H-1S, 1N promises 3-4 spades.

[foobar]

straube, on 2019-April-10, 08:59, said:

How have you modified 1S-1N for your double-barreled invites? For example, opening a limited 1S precludes very strong hands and your 1N response is more limited.
I've wondered if 1S-1N, 2C could promise 3+H kind of how your 1H-1S, 1N promises 3-4 spades.

Believe this post is in the context of an wide ranging standard opening. BTW, did TimG win the necro thread award on this sub-forum ?

[nullve]

awm, on 2006-November-28, 00:37, said:

Opener's 2♠ bid isn't needed as showing spades, and will be used to show clubs with a minimum opener. Playing a non-2/1 GF style system, responder's 2NT rebid over this doesn't have a natural meaning. Instead, we will use it as a scramble, either the awkward 1-4-5-3 pattern or other distributional red two-suiters.

So what would the continuations after 1♠-1N; 2♠ be if you were to play this in a 2/1 GF-like system?