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Regulations Concerning Modification Of Conventions

#1 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 06:28

I understand that conventions must be approved before they are used. To what extent may they be modified without being considered to be a new convention. Using Jacoby 2NT as an example, would any/all of the following require registration/approval  in the U.S.:
1) using it with the cheapest jump shift but keeping the responses the same
2) keeping 2NT as the bid, but changing the responses (such as Fred Gitelman's)
3) combining 1) and 2), as Fred does
4) moving the point count requirement upward by a few points
5) moving the point count requirement downward, and making the bid invitational, not forcing
6) would different tournament directors give different answers to the above

I realizze that there may not be a straightforward rules on this general topic, but I'd like to get a feel for this subject.
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 06:50

The ACBL's GCC explictly allows "7. ALL CONSTRUCTIVE CALLS starting with the opening bidder's second call."

Accordingly, if a bid such as a Jacoby 2NT response is allowed, you can pretty much fiddle with the responses to you hearts content without worrying about lossing the right to use the convention.

My guess is that you might have some problems if you start changing the strength definitions from "game forcing" to "game invitational" or vice-versa.  There are a number of bids whose license depends specifically on whether they promise game forcing strength or not.
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#3 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 07:51

Thanks Hrothgar!

What about changing the bid from 2NT to the cheapest jump shift, as Fred did. Did that require approval?
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#4 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 08:28

Quote

Thanks Hrothgar!

What about changing the bid from 2NT to the cheapest jump shift, as Fred did. Did that require approval?



This is also permitted.
The GCC explcitly permits

3. CONVENTIONAL RESPONSES WHICH GUARANTEE GAME FORCING OR BETTER VALUES. May NOT be part of a relay system.

+

5. SINGLE OR HIGHER JUMP SHIFTS AND/OR NOTRUMP BIDS AT THE TWO LEVEL OR HIGHER to indicate a raise or to force to game.

Please note that you can find the document in question on the ACBL web site.

http://www.acbl.org/Details.asp?id=1829&PI...D=9947&RID=9946
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#5 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 09:01

Thanks again for the link.
1) I see "Relay (tell me more) systems" are disallowed under the General chart.  Does this mean that, for example, a Precision system which uses symmetric relays (for example) can't be played at events using this chart?
2) Do most club games use this chart?
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#6 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 09:39

Quote

Thanks again for the link.
1) I see "Relay (tell me more) systems" are disallowed under the General chart.  Does this mean that, for example, a Precision system which uses symmetric relays (for example) can't be played at events using this chart?
2) Do most club games use this chart?


Its sometimes difficult to understand what the ACBL GCC permits / bans.  Fred mcan probably give you a more authoratative answer on this subject, however, here is my understanding.

The ACBL clearly bans most types of relay methods at the GCC level.  However, the ACBL appararantly differentiated between relays that immediately follow a constructive opening and relays that start at opener's rebid.

For example, using a 1S bid as a strong, artificial, and forcing asking bid is clearly verboten after a 1H opening, however, using a 1S rebid as a relay in an auction like
1C - 1H - 1S appears to be fine.

Clubs are allowed to set whatever regulations they want.
For exmaple, the MIT bridge club does not have any convention restrictions.
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#7 User is offline   pbleighton 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 10:00

You have been so helpful - 1 more question - transfers except after NT. NT seems covered by "ALL CALLS AFTER A NATURAL NOTRUMP opening bid or direct overcall". Are transfer positives in Precision OK?
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#8 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2003-April-12, 10:33

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You have been so helpful - 1 more question - transfers except after NT. NT seems covered by "ALL CALLS AFTER A NATURAL NOTRUMP opening bid or direct overcall". Are transfer positives in Precision OK?


In the infamous words of tech support personnel everywhere:

RTFM

:-)
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#9 User is offline   LukeG 

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Posted 2003-April-14, 16:09

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You have been so helpful - 1 more question - transfers except after NT. NT seems covered by "ALL CALLS AFTER A NATURAL NOTRUMP opening bid or direct overcall". Are transfer positives in Precision OK?


Yes, transfer positives are legal. GCC Responses and Rebids, item 6, permits "Artificial or conventional calls after strong (15+), forcing opening bids."  In fact, almost anything goes after a strong 1C, except for relay responses.

Although transfers are always allowed after a 1NT opening bid or overcall (another situation where almost anything goes), you can only use transfers after a suit opening bid or overcall if either (1) the transfer promises game-forcing values or (2) the opponent made a conventional call, which includes any double that is not for penalties!  So, if your partner opens 1S it's legal to use 2D as a transfer to hearts if the next hand doubles but not if the next hand bids a natural 1NT or 2C!
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#10 User is offline   Cave_Draco 

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Posted 2003-April-15, 06:57

Not an ideal string, but...

As I understand it, licensing is about what you should know to play in a Tournament. I learnt Precision, not to play it but to avoid opps having to explain everything.

I can play, but don't like, SAYC; I have awareness of 2/1.

One should allow opps to have a defence to any bidding system, if they choose to play DONT V Weak NT, their prob, but SAYC players have an obligation to "see" Acol, IMO.

Opps have an obligation to explain every call... licensing is an attempt to allow the game to flow.
"I know that there is only one power worth having. That is the power, not to take, but to accept; not to have, but to give."
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