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Easy pass. We are told this is "vanilla". This has to be fast arrival, so something like balanced 13-15 and no stronger. Anything better or shapely would bid something else over 2♦.
fitting hand but no fit? how to move this?
#22
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Posted 2012-November-13, 17:16
I though 1435 was the most typical shape for this bidding, with a cheap 4SF in 2♥ I don't understand giving partner a guess if he has 6 spades.
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Posted 2012-November-13, 18:03
fromageGB, on 2012-November-13, 15:10, said:
Easy pass. We are told this is "vanilla". This has to be fast arrival, so something like balanced 13-15 and no stronger. Anything better or shapely would bid something else over 2♦.
I don't think you will get very many people to agree that fast arrival applies to jumps in notrump.
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Posted 2012-November-13, 19:30
aguahombre, on 2012-November-13, 18:03, said:
I don't think you will get very many people to agree that fast arrival applies to jumps in notrump.
Certainly does for me Agh. A leftover from my Acol days I guess.
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#25
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Posted 2012-November-13, 19:42
Fwiw I think 16 to 17 makes a lot more sense and is much better than 15 to 17
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Posted 2012-November-13, 20:35
the hog, on 2012-November-13, 19:30, said:
Certainly does for me Agh. A leftover from my Acol days I guess.
Yeh, I understand. One of the tenets of 2/1 is NOT jumping around opposite an unlimited partner...rather using the extra space available and/or letting her use it.
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Posted 2012-November-13, 20:36
JLOGIC, on 2012-November-13, 19:42, said:
Fwiw I think 16 to 17 makes a lot more sense and is much better than 15 to 17
Indeed, it does, and is.
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Posted 2012-November-14, 02:01
aguahombre, on 2012-November-13, 20:35, said:
Yeh, I understand. One of the tenets of 2/1 is NOT jumping around opposite an unlimited partner...rather using the extra space available and/or letting her use it.
Funny, so if you jump to 3 NT with 15-17 (or 16-17), it is not jumping around but with 13-15 it is?
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Posted 2012-November-14, 03:16
Codo, on 2012-November-14, 02:01, said:
Funny, so if you jump to 3 NT with 15-17 (or 16-17), it is not jumping around but with 13-15 it is?
Fast arrival is, IMO, abused. It is useful AFTER a (suit) strain has been established, but not WHILE attempting to recommend strain. Jumps to notrump are, thus, used to split the wide 13-20+ range of strength responder might have ---so that the 2NT rebid can have two separate ranges, rather than one wide one.
Another case of the jump to game not being fast arrival would be:
1S-2C
2D-4S...where the jump is a useful picture bid showing no controls in the red suits.
But, of course you knew those things and were just bagging on my use of "jumping around". I should have chosen another characterization for the practice of getting in partner's way.
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Posted 2012-November-14, 05:26
aguahombre, on 2012-November-14, 03:16, said:
Another case of the jump to game not being fast arrival would be:
1S-2C
2D-4S...where the jump is a useful picture bid showing no controls in the red suits.
1S-2C
2D-4S...where the jump is a useful picture bid showing no controls in the red suits.
This IS fast arrival. It says we want to play in 4S, as far as I am concerned that is the limit of the hand, and I have nothing else useful to say.
This is exactly the same meaning as the jump to 3NT. It is the limit of the hand as far as the bidder is concerned, and he has nothing else useful to say. If there were other potential ending places he bids 2NT to see what opener wants to do.
I'm with the hog.
#31
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Posted 2012-November-14, 09:23
this time partner was joking around, he had ♠x ♥KQxx ♦QJxx ♣AQ10x, Even 6♣ is big favourite to make with ♠AJxx on lead.
The hand I had in mind while I was thinkng what to do over 3NT was not very far from it, it was ♠x♥KQxx♦Qxx♣AQxxx wich already is a decent slam, wich turns excellent after adding any of ♥J/♥10/♦J/♣10, but I didn't know how to work it out.
The hand I had in mind while I was thinkng what to do over 3NT was not very far from it, it was ♠x♥KQxx♦Qxx♣AQxxx wich already is a decent slam, wich turns excellent after adding any of ♥J/♥10/♦J/♣10, but I didn't know how to work it out.
#32
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Posted 2012-November-14, 09:24
As opposed to the thread where he made a takeout double with 6 cards in their suit 
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#33
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Posted 2012-November-14, 09:29
gwnn, on 2012-November-14, 09:24, said:
As opposed to the thread where he made a takeout double with 6 cards in their suit
This was a pickup BBO star, the guy who doubled with 6 cards in their suit is f2f, he also passed 2 boards later my take out double of 2♠ with singleton trump. This led to the opponent LOLs lecturing me that defence cannot claim when I claimed 2 doubled overtricks for them later on. Somehow we won the season even after those 2 boards
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Posted 2012-November-14, 09:44
Fluffy, on 2012-November-14, 09:23, said:
this time partner was joking around, he had ♠x ♥KQxx ♦QJxx ♣AQ10x, Even 6♣ is big favourite to make with ♠AJxx on lead.
The hand I had in mind while I was thinkng what to do over 3NT was not very far from it, it was ♠x♥KQxx♦Qxx♣AQxxx wich already is a decent slam, wich turns excellent after adding any of ♥J/♥10/♦J/♣10, but I didn't know how to work it out.
The hand I had in mind while I was thinkng what to do over 3NT was not very far from it, it was ♠x♥KQxx♦Qxx♣AQxxx wich already is a decent slam, wich turns excellent after adding any of ♥J/♥10/♦J/♣10, but I didn't know how to work it out.
I love problems like this.
Partner has the most obvious 3♦ call ever but we are supposed to work out to move over 3N by constructing 'normal' hands for partner.
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#35
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Posted 2012-November-14, 09:57
at least the discussion made me realice that 3NT must either show 2 spades for sure, on only 1, having it for 1 or 2 is ridicoulous with 2NT and 2♥ avaible.
I prefer exactly 1 or maybe zero possible since hands with doubleton create problems when partner has 5-5 where 3NT, 4♠, or any 5m could be best contract. But maybe there is something I am overlooking.
I prefer exactly 1 or maybe zero possible since hands with doubleton create problems when partner has 5-5 where 3NT, 4♠, or any 5m could be best contract. But maybe there is something I am overlooking.
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Posted 2012-November-14, 10:07
Fluffy, on 2012-November-14, 09:57, said:
at least the discussion made me realice that 3NT must either show 2 spades for sure, on only 1, having it for 1 or 2 is ridicoulous with 2NT and 2♥ avaible.
I prefer exactly 1 or maybe zero possible since hands with doubleton create problems when partner has 5-5 where 3NT, 4♠, or any 5m could be best contract. But maybe there is something I am overlooking.
I prefer exactly 1 or maybe zero possible since hands with doubleton create problems when partner has 5-5 where 3NT, 4♠, or any 5m could be best contract. But maybe there is something I am overlooking.
If you make 3NT=15-17, 3 diamonds and 2 spades (2335 or 2434 basically, maybe 2236), heart stop, you help those hands.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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