N/S Seating
#1
Posted 2021-June-03, 02:29
#2
Posted 2021-June-03, 09:57
The idea of all the strong pairs N-S and the less strong E-W is patently unfair (to both groups). Bunny-bashing isn't fun; winning E-W by "being beat up less than everyone else" also isn't fun, because they're still being beat up. Never mind knowing that "we won E-W" means "wouldn't make 50% if they sat N-S"; and while the E-W pairs may not have figured it out, the more "snooty" N-S people *definitely* will, and will make that clear.
If BBO's idea of who the "strong players" are is wrong, that's another issue. While you're a small game, see if you can access the "howell" movement and play 9 rounds in your 5 table game so everyone plays everyone. Then it doesn't matter!
#3
Posted 2021-June-03, 16:17
mycroft, on 2021-June-03, 09:57, said:
I think you're almost right. Bunny-bashing may not be much fun, but the strong and the snooty people will still do anything they can (down to inventing disabilities) to sit N-S and the only reason I can imagine is that they prefer to bash bunnies rather than face their rivals directly (or risk finishing second on line to some bunnies).
#4
Posted 2021-June-04, 09:21
There are definitely those who play N-S in these kinds of biased clubs who do so to avoid playing against the strong players (even though it means they *score against* the strong players). Ah well.
Sometimes, arrow-switching helps. Definitely, seeding tables (and enforcing it, before the game *) helps. Definitely doing a quick run-around before the game and fixing murderers' rows, or "look, all the 'seeded A' players are sitting N/S today and all the E/Ws are 'masterpoint As'. Maybe I should try to swap one of those tables." helps.
Of course, a lot of what you do depends on what your players think are the problems with the movement. What *I* think the problems in the movement are is secondary. If your players want an unfair game because it's better for them than a fair one, more power to them. I think it causes problems later, but sure, let them enjoy their tiny bubble.
* Although my club in México maybe takes this too far - they've bounced us from an A table because "today, you're B". Never mind that everybody in the field would call us an A pair and putting us into a B table is going to bias that line of the field stronger than the other one. But since we don't have the 4000 monsterpoints... And I say I'm the person that Follows the Rules even when they're Stupid.
#5
Posted 2021-June-04, 12:54
mycroft, on 2021-June-04, 09:21, said:
There are definitely those who play N-S in these kinds of biased clubs who do so to avoid playing against the strong players (even though it means they *score against* the strong players). Ah well.
Sometimes, arrow-switching helps. Definitely, seeding tables (and enforcing it, before the game *) helps. Definitely doing a quick run-around before the game and fixing murderers' rows, or "look, all the 'seeded A' players are sitting N/S today and all the E/Ws are 'masterpoint As'. Maybe I should try to swap one of those tables." helps.
Of course, a lot of what you do depends on what your players think are the problems with the movement. What *I* think the problems in the movement are is secondary. If your players want an unfair game because it's better for them than a fair one, more power to them. I think it causes problems later, but sure, let them enjoy their tiny bubble.
* Although my club in México maybe takes this too far - they've bounced us from an A table because "today, you're B". Never mind that everybody in the field would call us an A pair and putting us into a B table is going to bias that line of the field stronger than the other one. But since we don't have the 4000 monsterpoints... And I say I'm the person that Follows the Rules even when they're Stupid.
Wanting to be in control of the table I can understand more, but they still behave the same online when offered a choice.
As a Director in Italy I don't have the asset/handicap of stratification, so I can use my own judgement (at my own peril) if I want to equal things up a bit.
One additional reason that they want to sit N/S is that they took it for granted until I arrived that any sitout would be E/W. The first time I decided the contrary (by flipping a coin) I risked mutiny.
#6
Posted 2021-June-04, 14:03
But mostly because "everyone" wants to sit N/S, and I need a sweetener for the E/W pairs...
*unless, of course, it helps *me* to have an E-W sitout. Like when I'm running the 7.5 table, 27-board hesitation Mitchell or the 11.5 table, 24-board relay-byestand movements "without the relay".
#7
Posted 2021-June-06, 15:29
mycroft, on 2021-June-03, 09:57, said:
We only arrange the players by points in stratified games, to ensure similar numbers of players in each stratum in each section/direction. Otherwise it's totally random.
#8
Posted 2021-June-07, 09:01
#9
Posted 2021-June-08, 12:03
mycroft, on 2021-June-07, 09:01, said:
If ACBL doesn't relent on the 11-feet (3.35m) between table centre requirement for re-opening, we may need to start charging $1 extra for N-S seats when moving table to table becomes more of a marathon, especially since many perma-N-S players will not get up to pass boards, which will be difficult to impossible with 11 feet between table centres. Otherwise, as Phil Wood used to say when his players sat 70%N-S and 30%E-W, "there will be a lot of sitouts ..."
Please come back to the live game; I directed enough online during COVID for several lifetimes.
Bruce McIntyre,
#10
Posted 2021-June-14, 11:01
(spoilered for those who've read it 5 times already)
My other "I need a N/S" "No, you have to play E/W today" story a) isn't mine, and b) would be of zero interest to anyone but directors...
#12
Posted 2021-June-25, 11:19
TD of note (as I said, not me) was doing a tournament in the middle of nowhere (seriously, look at district 18, there's a *lot* of nowhere). He had two rooms for the event, one of which was a glorified hallway that could fit two tables abreast, if he staggered them carefully. When he laid out the 14 tables, he was told in no uncertain terms by the tournament organizer that North had to point north (the short way). So, to appease him, he did.
When the guy with the two canes came up to buy an entry, and asked for a double N/S, TD said "no, you get a double E/W today". "but you see..." "No, trust me, double E/W."
I'm sure you've guessed by now, but the first round change, of course, was "N/S higher, boards lower, round 2 please."
TD told me that story when he DIC'ed his first Calgary sectional, and set the room up "backwards". He was told, again, in strident tones, that here, North points to *that* wall. Of course, when giving me the map for Saturday morning (with A, B, side ( C), and 199er (E) sections), I found it odd that North was pointing a different direction in each one. He swears to this day this was "just the best setup for expansion" and not a subtle revenge. I still don't believe him...
#14
Posted 2021-June-25, 14:14
I told her my response would have been "only planning to go in round one?"
Please come back to the live game; I directed enough online during COVID for several lifetimes.
Bruce McIntyre,
#15
Posted 2021-June-25, 14:44
#16
Posted 2021-July-20, 11:21
#17
Posted 2021-July-24, 20:08
sandiem, on 2021-July-20, 11:21, said:
Stratified tournaments shuffle the players within the sections after distributing by point totals. Non-stratified tournaments do what you say.