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To Brexit

#21 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 01:03

No, the most suitable term is "surplace" where the two contenders are studied each other having the disputed agreement on the table. That the situation has become more and more enveloped has surprised even the same politicians who have proposed to follow up the 2016 referendum result. In this situation, increasingly intricate, try to find some strategy to get some more favorable data, if it is found or it is possible to grasp, it is desirable. Even returning to the referendum result should not be wrong because there is not here what is called a "Bulgarian majority".
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#22 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 02:54

View PostLovera, on 2019-August-16, 01:03, said:

No, the most suitable term is "surplace"

I bow to your superior knowledge of the English language. Unfortunately my limited vocabulary only knows the word surplace from French and Italian so I will need to head back to school in order to join in the conversation any further.
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#23 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 03:08

View PostZelandakh, on 2019-August-16, 02:54, said:

I bow to your superior knowledge of the English language. Unfortunately my limited vocabulary only knows the word surplace from French and Italian so I will need to head back to school in order to join in the conversation any further.


https://en.m.wikiped...iki/Track_stand
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#24 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 03:32

Short review of the conversation:-

View PostZelandakh, on 2019-August-15, 11:03, said:

Just to point out that the correct term in cycling a standstill (or track stand).


View PostLovera, on 2019-August-16, 01:03, said:

No, the most suitable term is "surplace"


View PostZelandakh, on 2019-August-16, 02:54, said:

my limited vocabulary only knows the word surplace from French and Italian


View PostLovera, on 2019-August-16, 03:08, said:

The track stand or standstill is a technique that bicycle riders can use to maintain balance


Read back and digest. You might then have part of the answer why almost noone here responds to your posts in any meaningful way.
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#25 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 06:10

View PostLovera, on 2019-August-16, 01:03, said:

No, the most suitable term is "surplace" where the two contenders are studied each other having the disputed agreement on the table. That the situation has become more and more enveloped has surprised even the same politicians who have proposed to follow up the 2016 referendum result. In this situation, increasingly intricate, try to find some strategy to get some more favorable data, if it is found or it is possible to grasp, it is desirable. Even returning to the referendum result should not be wrong because there is not here what is called a "Bulgarian majority".


Surplace is not an English word (or at least not one English people use). Much like Dutch people speaking English use the word egoistic, which is basically the Dutch word and perfectly correct English, although native English use the word selfish instead.
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#26 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 06:51

I do not think it useful to dwell longer on the talking of two terms having the same meaning. Instead, it is better to stay more detached to avoid the risk of losing the overall vision.
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#27 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 17:42

For the sake of truth this term "standstill" is used in the article "How Boris Johnson plans to deliver Brexit in 100 days" :https://www.stuff.co...xit-in-100-days
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#28 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-18, 11:00

What may not have been well considered is the persuasive force of the diplomatic weapon. It may be interesting to hear what Sir Malcom Rifkind said at a conference in 2017:
https://youtu.be/zkgiXLixFV8

and what he said today (on SkyNews in "Sophie Ridge on Sunday"):https://youtu.be/1-YONhd_tDI
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#29 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2019-August-19, 14:34

UK is making a big mistake not accepting May's deal. It was better as they could ever have expected. Johnson who rejects the deal basically has the choice between "No Deal" and "No Johnson". Although discussion is still going on, as most MPs will rather saw off their foot than have "No Deal", it is quite clear that they will get rid of Johnson in time. Quite surprising that he took the job in the first place. What people do just to be on the list of former prime ministers...

With Johnson gone, there will be a vote between "repeal article 50" and "May's deal Brexit"... "Repeal" might just mean that UK will file Brexit again at a later time, just to get two more years out of the EU, but I feel that there is a less than 1% chance of a "No Deal" Brexit. Just too many people who don't want that.
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#30 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-August-19, 14:50

View PostGerben42, on 2019-August-19, 14:34, said:

UK is making a big mistake not accepting May's deal. It was better as they could ever have expected.


In what way ? It was basically accepting what the EU wanted, and not really a Brexit at all given that the EU can keep the UK in the EU indefinitely.
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#31 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 18:10

You may be led to think that both P.M. May and then Johnson were not well supported by a legal law consultant team for the evaluation of a correct draft of this contract (without wishing to reach the judiciary that determines its validity or not).
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#32 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 02:28

View PostLovera, on 2019-August-21, 18:10, said:

You may be led to think that both P.M. May and then Johnson were not well supported by a legal law consultant team

And you would be wrong. The British government has an excellent legal team available.
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#33 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 03:10

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-August-19, 14:50, said:

In what way ? It was basically accepting what the EU wanted, and not really a Brexit at all given that the EU can keep the UK in the EU indefinitely.

This is a persistent myth, but it is myth - very wrong indeed. The EU didn't want a UK-wide backstop. And in fact it is quite a concession by the EU as it could reasonably be interpreted as cherry-picking among the "four freedoms", which the EU absolutely did not want.
May's negotiating team was very successful, it just turned out that parliament didn't agree with the goal of the negotiation.

The problem here is not the EU, it's the UK. Because the UK does not know what it wants - not parliament, not government, and certainly not the public.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#34 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 06:15

View Postcherdano, on 2019-August-22, 03:10, said:

This is a persistent myth, but it is myth - very wrong indeed. The EU didn't want a UK-wide backstop. And in fact it is quite a concession by the EU as it could reasonably be interpreted as cherry-picking among the "four freedoms", which the EU absolutely did not want.
May's negotiating team was very successful, it just turned out that parliament didn't agree with the goal of the negotiation.

The problem here is not the EU, it's the UK. Because the UK does not know what it wants - not parliament, not government, and certainly not the public

I agree. The UK is almost entirely responsible for this mess. The backstop was mostly put in place based on a UK demand; news at that time featured videos of EU negotiators saying that they "agreed to the backstop because the UK Govt. needs it to maintain the Good Friday agreement".

The UK Govt. has never been clear what they want and how they will (try to) make a success our of Brexit. At all points in the negotiation, it appeared like the EU negotiators knew what they were doing, how they wanted to negotiate and what their expectations were. In contrast, the UK negotiators never once appeared like they knew what they were doing or why they were even there.

*** "Brexit means Brexit"
*** "Red White and Blue Brexit"
*** "Right deal for the United Kingdom is also the right deal for the EU"
*** "We import more than we export -- the German automobile industry will force EU to negotiate a deal"
are all myths perpetuated by our political class who never had a clue on what Brexit should mean. We now have reached a stage where domiciled EU nationals' rights are being jeopardised by the perfidy of our Home Secretary.
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#35 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 07:15

https://www.theguard...-jibe-live-news
Here the press conference in Berlin between Merkel and Johnson:https://youtu.be/ObyAIoeyTM8
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#36 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 07:55

View Postcherdano, on 2019-August-22, 03:10, said:

This is a persistent myth, but it is myth - very wrong indeed. The EU didn't want a UK-wide backstop. And in fact it is quite a concession by the EU as it could reasonably be interpreted as cherry-picking among the "four freedoms", which the EU absolutely did not want.
May's negotiating team was very successful, it just turned out that parliament didn't agree with the goal of the negotiation.

The problem here is not the EU, it's the UK. Because the UK does not know what it wants - not parliament, not government, and certainly not the public.


No, May was always a remainer and never wanted to leave and this was sabotaging Brexit because she KNEW is would never get past some conservatives and the DUP.
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#37 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 08:45

View PostGerben42, on 2019-August-19, 14:34, said:

... With Johnson gone, there will be a vote between "repeal article 50" and "May's deal Brexit"... "Repeal" might just mean that UK will file Brexit again at a later time, just to get two more years out of the EU, but I feel that there is a less than 1% chance of a "No Deal" Brexit. Just too many people who don't want that.

Not as I understand. If Johnson goes, as things stand it will be a Labour led government with Corbyn as prime minister. Where does your "too many people don't want it" (no deal) come from? Less than a week ago it was reported (https://www.telegrap...rbyn-government) that a YouGov poll found "Nearly half of the public - 48 per cent - said they would prefer to see the country crash out of the EU than the Labour leader implement his own approach to Brexit" with 48% in favour of no deal, and 35% in favour of Corbyn, who has eventually agreed a policy of a second referendum.

That's a pretty decisive margin, and it is not Labour policy to either repeal article 50 or accept May's deal.

However, unfortunately it is looking as if Boris is trying to resurrect the May agreement, with added tweaks. I really hope he does not succeed.
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#38 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-August-22, 09:57

View PostfromageGB, on 2019-August-22, 08:45, said:

Not as I understand. If Johnson goes, as things stand it will be a Labour led government with Corbyn as prime minister. Where does your "too many people don't want it" (no deal) come from? Less than a week ago it was reported (https://www.telegrap...rbyn-government) that a YouGov poll found "Nearly half of the public - 48 per cent - said they would prefer to see the country crash out of the EU than the Labour leader implement his own approach to Brexit" with 48% in favour of no deal, and 35% in favour of Corbyn, who has eventually agreed a policy of a second referendum.

That's a pretty decisive margin, and it is not Labour policy to either repeal article 50 or accept May's deal.

However, unfortunately it is looking as if Boris is trying to resurrect the May agreement, with added tweaks. I really hope he does not succeed.


Except that the danger is that Corbyn can't get a confidence vote through either, a general election is called and we leave with no deal before we have a government.
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#39 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2019-August-23, 14:48

6h ago15:36


"Boris Johnson says people 'shouldn't get hopes up too soon' about prospects of Brexit deal
Boris Johnson has played down hopes of an early breakthrough in talks with the EU intended to resolve the Brexit crisis. In comments that suggest he thinks some of the reporting of what he achieved this week has been over-optimistic, he said that while the "mood music" when he visited Berlin and Paris was "very good", people "shouldn't necessarily get their hopes up too soon".

Speaking to reporters on a visit to Devon, he said:

[Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron] could see that we want a deal, they can see the problems with the backstop. Clearly Angela Merkel thinks that the solutions can be found within 30 days - actually what she meant was if you can do it in two years you can certainly do it in 30 days.

But I want to caution everybody, OK? Because this is not going to be a cinch, this is not going to be easy. We will have to work very hard to get this thing done ...

We have to have an arrangement that allows the whole UK to come out of the EU and have frictionless trade at the border in Northern Ireland. There are lots of ways that we can make sure that happens. But to persuade our EU friends and partners, who are very, very, very hard over against it, will take some time ...

I'm afraid we will have to prepare to come out without an agreement and we can do that, we are very confident that we will be OK because we will have all sorts of preparations in place.

We are making progress but I am just telling people not to hold their breath, because I have seen the way these Brussels negotiations work.

Johnson said that it was "always on the steps of the court, as it were, that the deal is done". He went on:

I must urge people - we are going to be working very hard on this but they shouldn't necessarily get their hopes up too soon."
[From The Guardian on Fri 23 Aug 2019]
- But so we are on the point again, although.

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#40 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2019-August-24, 13:31

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-August-22, 09:57, said:

Except that the danger is that Corbyn can't get a confidence vote through either, a general election is called and we leave with no deal before we have a government.

I wouldn't call that a danger, I call it success.
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